# Countersteer or Die!

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by wadenelson, May 17, 2018.

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Again, we're talking about lateral COG. You have lots of things going on in your head, but it's clear that you are confusing yourself.
2. ### Center-standLong timer

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If I am standing in my living room and tilt my head to one side or the other, I have changed my COG. If I am on my bike and tilt my head to one side or the other why does the COG not change. Why do we straddle motorcycles? Couldn't we just put a recliner on the side?

Did you look at the link? Why is every transportation device in the world affected by load placement, except motorcycles?

A moving motorcycle has lateral stability.

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3. ### Center-standLong timer

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Let's suppose just for a minute that I am able to perfectly balance a bike while stationary. Then I lean my upper body to the right, will the equal and opposite forces keep me from falling over? Why not? When gravity is pulling me down will it have anything to do with COG?

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Because the bike tilts an equal and opposite amount in the other direction...there's no lateral stability with a single-track vehicle.

Because they are not all single-track vehicles.

No, it doesn't. You must make continual corrections.
5. ### VX RiderLong timer

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Not at a vety low speed
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Yes.
because you are perfectly balanced.
Yes, if you displace the contact patches to the side, the support of the bike is no longer directly underneath the COG.
7. ### Center-standLong timer

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At all speeds. The laws of motion don't vanish at some low speed.
9. ### BetterLateThanNeverIt turns out you can't delete your account...

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Yep. Motorcycles in motion are inherently stable, thanks to two (or three) gyroscopes. In my mind, this discussion lost its last crumb of legitimacy with the whole broomstick thing. As an analogy, nothing has so completely revealed its proponents' utter inadequacy to the subject.

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You could remove all gyroscopic effects and still find that a motorcycle retains all of the familiar handling qualities that you are accustomed with. Gyroscopic effects are secondary forces.

This becomes obvious at slow speeds where gyroscopic forces are at a minimum.
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11. ### VX RiderLong timer

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Oh....so now the forces are too weak.....

A

Or

B

You can't decide

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I have another tip. Shut off the motor and pull in the clutch at some slow velocity. You'll find that the bike doesn't handle any differently without gyroscopic forces present.
14. ### VX RiderLong timer

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If one is unaware

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Unaware of what?
16. ### AZQKRLong timer

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18. ### lucky13gsalost

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you can try to learn something new if you like. or not. however, your lack of understanding the broomstick analogy does not make it invalid for this discussion. we can all agree that if you push left to go left, you are also 'steering the bars to the right' or countersteering, no? no matter what else goes on with your turn, you need to initiate a lean. fast or slow you initiate a lean by countersteering.

the inverted pendulum or broomstick analogy demonstrates the action that takes place to lean your motorcycle. so, simply... if you want to turn to the left, you first turn the front wheel to the right. this causes the front of the bike, the base of the pendulum, to drive out to the right, which is what causes the bike to lean over to the left. you control the quickness and duration with the amount of force applied to the bars. the greater the speed being traveled, the more force it takes for a given amount of deflection due to increased centrifugal force of the spinning wheel (oh wow, no wonder carbon fiber wheels so positively affect the steering quickness!) once you have achieved the desired amount of lean angle you release the handlebars.

there is a lot of other stuff that we could talk about to continue the discussion of the turn and steering, use of throttle, body position, what happens next to the geometry of the front end, pro-steering, riding style (ie: you can ride supermoto or superbike style with opposing COG shifts.) none of that matters if you never initiate the lean.
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19. ### AZQKRLong timer

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I bolded it, don't tell me you can't see the contradiction in the two bolded statements you made.