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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by wadenelson, May 17, 2018.
HA! Do NOT tell him he can't be in two places at once.
Pretty much what I said. Except you don't need actual knowledge about counter steering. You just need to do it. Like I said, I ran flat track and raced hare scrambles without having any knowledge or thought about counter steering like is brought up in these discussions. I was a better quicker street rider in comparison to friends, still didn't have that knowledge. But I did have the practice that makes most of the moves near instant and almost instinctive.
You may have not known what it was called, by name, but you knew how to put pressure on the bars. Yes, we are saying the same thing. What did you race in flat track?
I figured we did agree. I did a couple summers of short track on a 175 Sherpa S. The most fun you can have with your clothes on. I still love flat track, am working on a looooooonnnnnng term project SR500 street tracker. There is a club with a flat track in central Ohio, Triangle MC I think, where you can join and ride the tracks. I want to see what it's like to ride a half mile.
Actually I find when riding I'm doing a whole lot more than pressure on bars. When I try to isolate I find things missing. My body moves and shifts based on all the years. When I tried to just do one thing all those little bits were missed. Maybe that was the benefit of never having that "push/pull up/down on the bars", I simply did it from the bicycling as a kid and then mini bikes, a friend's Cushman Eagle, and finally off roaders.
Easiest way to demonstrate counter-steering: buy a Spyder. I had one for years along with my bikes, and the Spyder steers directly, and bikes don't. I was able to easily jump between the two without having to retrain my brain each time, but it was clear and obvious that despite having the same handlebars, they didn't operate the same.
Yup, Spyder is like a snowmobile on tires. In fact a snowmobile can be steered with the throttle and slide the track.
Found out countersteering also works on my ice bike, as long as I have traction its like riding on pavement. But when I get onto the snow off the glare ice countersteering still works, just needs a lot more coordination with the rear end of the bike. Sliding is a hoot!
What kind of oil helps me countersteer my car tires if I have an inline 4 cylinder horizontally opposed V-twin enclosed chain shaft drive? What if I'm running 50/50/70/30 knobby road tires and Dot 3 brake fluid and I haven't done the Batman mod?
Does it need to be BMW brand with the whale sperm in it? Do I need to pour it left handed? Is it gluten free?
It should be poured in by a left handed vegan girl with high tight glutes, lightly oiled with pure cold pressed extra virgin olive oil all over her skin.
Be sure to tip her when she finishes the job.
The ambulance driver will have to tip her. My heart won't make it through that scene.
I GOT AIR! Yesterday I was the instructor for two Street Skills classes on the small track at Road America. Once of the exercises is simply to ride a steady 30mph down the front straight, head/eyes up, and assertively press-press on the handgrips. The idea is to get the rider to actually do a press-press action and feel the bike respond/move. When I demonstrated the action on my BMW R1200RT I'd press-press quickly and brief so the bike would mostly weave. But I'd also do it assertively to make the bike move enough to touch down a peg, and in between some of the moves I got the front tire to hop off the road. Never had that happen before, but I've seen a rider do it years ago on a Gold Wing.
There's only one way to counter steer but, people have lots of ways to describe it.
Man, if you have to think about something as basic as the physical act of countersteering; it is wayyyy too late. There are so many ways to control a motorcycle...
One good reference is Motocross Action Magazine. While I have not subscribed for some time, the used to have articles periodically on the physics of riding and I guaranty you that the skill range riding off road is wider than strictly street--it is better to have more skills over a wider range than less.
Yup, that is why I also ride dirt on my DRZ400E and on the ice in winter on my GN400. Great ways to learn traction control and balance. Plus to learn the effects of purposeful handlebar input, not just let the bike do what it will without your direct input.
Well you won't think so from reading a typical 'counter steering' thread.
And the sad thing is that most don't really have an interest in improving.
Face it, counter steering a motorcycle is like a putting a hole in a piece of metal.
There are many ways to make it happen, but the end result is the same. The turn is made and there is a hole in the metal. How it happened, how easy it was, or how long it took may vary, but it happened.
I'm not a very good rider, and just started riding pavement 2 years ago. I struggle with higher speed turns, and when I get tired, things can go to crap.
So I'm going down a twisty road, and I over cook a corner. sometimes I almost lock up. I'm trying to practice countersteering intentionally.
One guy told me to take the grips and shove the inside grip down into the corner. That makes more sense to me than pushing forward the wrong way.
I'm also trying the above - get into a tight 180, then push the bars so I go even tighter. Not natural yet, but I'm practicing a lot.
For sure I'm not doing any body movement yet. The video says lean to the inside of the corner which is totally not natural. Much more natural is to hold myt head and shoulders up out of the corner.
except that counter leaning isn't helping your cornering