Countersteer or Die!

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by wadenelson, May 17, 2018.

  1. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever It turns out you can't delete your account...

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    Right. Separate gyroscopic effects are still being generated by the engine, which has a lot to do with keeping the bike upright at low speeds (and is the reason why we drag the rear brake for very low speed maneuvering... so we can cheat the rpms higher).
  2. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    So, when you balance a broom on your finger you believe there is a point where you can move your hand left slowly enough that the broom will not fall to the right?
  3. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever It turns out you can't delete your account...

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    What do you hope to accomplish, here? What does victory look like to you? Surely anyone with even the most primitive understanding of people can see that I am not going to change your mind, and you are not going to change mine. Why keep trying with these 'gotcha' questions? Do I have to ignore you, too? I've appreciated your contributions on other threads, so I'd prefer not to. But if that's what it takes to keep you from cluttering up my alerts, I'll do it.

    Give it up, son. The one thing you and I agree on is the sentiment in your sig.
  4. DELTATANGO

    DELTATANGO Motorcyclist and Dog Walk

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    It’s bullshit.

    Just ride the sonofabitch.
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  5. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    Ignore me if you wish.
  6. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever It turns out you can't delete your account...

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    Okey doke. Ride safe.
  7. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    So, stand beside your bike, set a fast idle and make it balance in place. Then push it over and note just how much resistance you feel.
  8. shinyribs

    shinyribs Thumpers for life

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    Geez, give it up with the broomstick already. It's not relevant. Comparing moving your hand out from under a broomstick to a motorcycle rolling down the highway makes no sense. Is there a giant cosmic magician trying to yank the road out from under us that we have to battle against?

    [​IMG]



    It makes absolutely no sense.

    Road= Stationary
    Hand= Mobile

    How can you quibble over tiny,minute physical actions, but completely gloss over the drastic difference between stationary and mobile? :D
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  9. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    This conversation is not about "rolling down the highway" please feel free to read back and freshen up.

    But, the reality is, if you understand that you counter steer at highway speeds, the balanced broom stick is a similar principle.
  10. Klay

    Klay dreaming adventurer Supporter

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    It's completely relevant. It illuminates a law of motion.
  11. Klay

    Klay dreaming adventurer Supporter

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    The reason we drag the rear brake in slow-speed maneuvers is because you can more accurately control the speed of the bike than with the throttle. Thus countersteering and turning can be accomplished more smoothly. It has nothing to do with the gyroscopic effects of the motor.
  12. VX Rider

    VX Rider Long timer

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    I don't ballance brooms routinely
    And a broom is s poor analog for a motorcycle
    You folks like to trot that out as if it's even relevant to the discussion....
  13. Klay

    Klay dreaming adventurer Supporter

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    Physics is entirely relevant to the discussion.
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  14. Center-stand

    Center-stand Long timer

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    ..

    Would somebody please explain in detail how a broomstick balanced on your finger is relevant to riding a motorcycle. Obviously all Dolly Sod and no can do is make unsubstantiated claims. They don't know the answer to their own theory.

    ..
  15. VX Rider

    VX Rider Long timer

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    They are trying poorly to illustrate

    ..equal and opposite reaction...

    And a.broomstick is a poor analog for a motorcycle. ..along with the ballance your bike; does it fall over bs, because most bikes are not ballance

    And I can tell that at speed, I can move around quite a bit and not upset the system of forces at play....

    I can also lean a bike with no intention of steering it, and vice-versa
    Y'all just hung up on how the steering geometry works..

    Interesting phrase steering, not countersteering geometry.....coincidence I think not.
  16. IronButt70

    IronButt70 You don't have to be crazy to do this but it helps

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    I’m betting 100 pages by Friday. :D
  17. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    Try it.

    Balance a broom on your finger, note which way you have to move your hand to keep the broom balanced.

    If you want to move the broom to the left, can you do it without leaning the broom to the left as well?
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  18. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever It turns out you can't delete your account...

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    I was just listening to a podcast in which they were interviewing motor cops competing in a gymkhana. The quote that got my attention, from an officer instructor, was, “It’s all direct steering.”

    For those interested, here’s a good, clear write up about the gyroscopic forces generated by your engine, and their role in stabilizing a slow moving bike. It’s a bit old, but the writer seemed credible:

    https://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2182
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  19. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    You should put this to the test and set a fast idle on your bike, and see if it stands up all by itself in your garage.
  20. Andrew

    Andrew Optimus Primer Administrator Super Moderator

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    Trimmed your post and retained the relevant bit.