Countersteering, shmountersteering

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by garandman, May 27, 2011.

  1. bgoodwin

    bgoodwin Got Parelli?

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    I should stay far away from this thread, but it's like a 25 car pile up...you just gotta look at it.

    No two wheeled, single track vehicle can be turned without "counter steering".
    Counter steering moves the track of the tires outside of the center of the motorcycle, thus causing lean....which is actually roll. As the correct amount of roll is achieved, you steer the front tire into the turn to maintain the desired trajectory.
    This second bit of steering is very hard for allot if folks to detect, as it is subtle, and mostly muscle memory, you learned the first day you successfully rode a bicycle.






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  2. bgoodwin

    bgoodwin Got Parelli?

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    Maybe I should start my, completely unrelated, "Center of gravity height vs degree of lean angle for a given curve" thread...



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  3. TebKLR

    TebKLR Been here awhile

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    Press right..lean tight. It's just that simple.....
  4. orangebear

    orangebear Long timer

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    that what i do and it works:clap
  5. David R

    David R I been called a Nut Job..

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    Press harder right, leans more right.
  6. erkmania

    erkmania I'll take better everytime

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    Wrong. In a car you can let go of the wheel and let the castor forces take care of the steering angle while it is sliding the rear tires. There was a terrific video of a Ferrari (or was it a Lambo?) test driver doing just that while he was on a test track. He used the throttle mid-corner to control the slide.

    Take your car onto a clear dirt lot and try for yourself. It's good fun. Do remember to take control later, though. :D
  7. Grackle

    Grackle Adventurer

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    Yup the car basically wants to counter steer on its own. My miata (:D) doesn't have enough balls to drift on pavement, but in the snow it's incredibly easy. Upset the rear wheels coming onto a turn (gas, clutch bump, e-brake, weight transfer from braking, whatever suits your fancy) and the rear end comes around... All you need to do to help it out is give the wheel a flick in the right direction.

    Of course FWD is totally different... Power on and aim where you want to go. That's a very strange feeling.
  8. no

    no dreaming adventurer Supporter

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    What happens with a car is not countersteering.
  9. Grackle

    Grackle Adventurer

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    Well, there is something called countersteering in the automotive world, but yeah... the physics and purpose is different. Anyway I was just replying to the post above mine, sorry for the derail.
  10. Griffin44

    Griffin44 Been here awhile

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    I just can't believe that anyone that has ever ridden a motorcycle in a curve can not understand countersteering. It truly boggles my mind.
  11. orangebear

    orangebear Long timer

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    people like me can get a bike round a bend at speed without needing to know what counter steering is. When I started riding and when I did my test nobody ever mentioned counter steering or needed to sit me down and explain how to steer. i just ride a bike and if i need to turn i just push down on the left bar and lean left and bike will go left.

    with a car you just turn the steering wheel left and car will go left more you turn the wheel the more a car will turn.
  12. JDLuke

    JDLuke Ravening for delight

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    In other words, you countersteer the bike and add a bit of body english. I'd suggest that pushing forward rather than down is the only modification that technique might warrant.
  13. JDLuke

    JDLuke Ravening for delight

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    I practice on snow and ice with every car I ever drive through a winter. Whenever I experience oversteering, I turn the wheels into the slide and the front tends to recover very nicely as a result. This technique is also (rather unfortunately) called countersteering but is unrelated to the countersteering that is the topic of this thread.

    I have to admit, I've never tried letting go of the steering wheel in order to rescue an oversteer.
  14. ikonoklass

    ikonoklass Kountersteering Krew

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    Now we're beginning to get to the proper application of Newton's Third Law as it relates to motorcycling.
  15. PFFOG

    PFFOG Richard Alps-aholic Supporter

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    I understand counter steering and won many bets with it as far back as the early 70's, BUT I completely understand why good, long time riders don't have a clue.

    Here is why, you walk, but do you fully understand the dynamics and mechanics that let you do so??? I bet not, because you learned to walk years ago and it is just natural, I bet you walk much better (at least sober) than you did when you started too, as practice makes perfect.

    Same with counter steering, we all learned it when we started riding a bicycle at 4 or 5 years of age, and it is now just instinctive, although counter intuitive. Just watch a new rider weave back and forth zigging and zagging, until the muscle memory takes over and it seems natural, you don't need to understand it to do it. I am sure birds don't have a clue how to fly. they just do it.
  16. SgtDuster

    SgtDuster Long timer

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    Not understanding all the ins and outs is one thing...to argue that c-steering isn't required or doesn't even exist is a whole another thing.

    It's like saying "I never learned to walk, I don't actually walk at all but I can move forward on my feet without a problem".
  17. sasha18yug

    sasha18yug Been here awhile

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  18. Crisis management

    Crisis management Latte riders FTW!

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    For those still struggling with the countersteering concept but smart enough to own an Iphone the C/S app is available for that switch from portrait to landscape display, a simple twitch in the opposite direction of the way you want to go and the image flicks in the opposite. :deal









    For those not smart enough for Iphones there is a manual alternative but it involves decision making, planning, synapses and muscular control. :D
  19. vortexau

    vortexau Outside the Pod-bay

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    [​IMG]

    Means you have to get clear of the two trucks. Once he's not restricted to Left and Right, the driver can resume countersteering . . . . until the rightside drops down and he's FOUR Wheels again.
  20. PSYCHO II

    PSYCHO II Crusty Demon

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    Interesting! Is this vehicle not on two wheels ... at the moment. Not exactly motorcyle tyres but balancing nonetheless. I like your positive out come but get it wrong and he's on his side.:lol3 Just thought I'd balance the argument.:lol3:lol3:lol3 Sorry, I'm not laughing at you but with you.