Crashed hitting a deer at about 55mph

Discussion in 'Face Plant' started by FredBGG, Aug 31, 2016.

  1. FredBGG

    FredBGG Long timer

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    I can't give you a definite answer on hitting a tree at 40mph, but the hit air airbag vest has been tested by Jari in state of the art testing labs.
    Here is a video that shows how the vest performs in chest impact.

    With even a full conventional chest protector the deflection is 52.1mm

    With the hit air vest the chest deflection is less that half of that 20.7mm

    That is quite a difference.

    Here is the video:


    Here is some testing and demos of Helite vests.

    the demo a about 30s shows how fast the system is on a test rider hitting a car in a typical left hand turner situation.
  2. Chief Orman

    Chief Orman Been here awhile

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    Christ I ride Skyline all the time and out to the Chabot Rifle range...beginning to get paranoid about all the damn deer strikes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  3. AdvTraveler

    AdvTraveler Live to Ride

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  4. mebgardner

    mebgardner Been here awhile

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    Thanks so much for bringing the clarity I needed to pull the trigger on one of these.

    I'm on the Hit-Air site to investigate a purchase, and I'm quickly overwhelmed by the choices. I don't know what I should buy!

    So, I ride super sports, adv's, and dual sports bikes in summer, winter, fall, and spring (it's nice to live in Tucson AZ).

    So lets say max 105 deg. (yep, I'm riding in summer but yeah sweltering in the gear, even a mesh vest with armor), down to 37 deg in winter.

    I ride pavement, graded dirt, and two-track, but I'm now gunshy of single track.

    I've got lots to choose from already, multiple choices in each catagory: Jackets, coats, vests, pants, gloves, helmets, boots etc... All good stuff, lots of it with armor in it.

    Even so, I think there's what 4 vests to choose from, and 5 jackets / coats? How does one choose?
  5. FredBGG

    FredBGG Long timer

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    If your happy with your gear just get yourself the MLV-P and wear it over your gear. It still lets air get through your gear.
    It has good size adjustment to fit snug over your skinnier summer stuff and fit over your thicker winter gear.

    If your getting really low on your gas tank on your super sport you may want to consider a rave vest http://www.air-vest.com/product/RS-1.htm
    But if your riding public roads I would stay with the MLV-P for more hip and tail bone protection.
  6. mebgardner

    mebgardner Been here awhile

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    Thanks!, I'll take the advice, that's kind of you.

    I'm somewhat surprised there's no "selection advice" from the manufacturers? I can not seem to find any...

    Anyway, Thanks!
  7. mebgardner

    mebgardner Been here awhile

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    Does anyone know why ADAC chose 100 msec as the inflate time spec. to meet?

    Assuming that, at the extreme max'es, that 1 nanosec is too short, and say 10 secs is too long, why choose 100 msec?

    Hit-Air currently (2016) makes, I think, 2 products that meet this spec., and the rest of them don't.

    That's why I'm asking.
  8. mebgardner

    mebgardner Been here awhile

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    Fred: Were you wearing these during your get-off? I'm also selecting new boots, but I'm looking at your cycle, and trying to decide *how* you manage the foot controls, in those boots?

    Those are like close to MX boots.
  9. mebgardner

    mebgardner Been here awhile

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    This model is new for 2016: "Hit-Air VHR Light Weight fast inflation", and they're claiming a "0.090 sec" inflation for the neck area. That's 90 msec, pretty fast.

    I know you're not the expert on these things, just a *very* happy customer. Was this model available when you chose your vest? Just wondering if you know the difference between it, and the MLV-P.
  10. FredBGG

    FredBGG Long timer

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    [​IMG]
    Looks like the new vest has a different bladder design around the hip area. Faster is a good thing, increases the chances of a good outcome at higher speeds I guess.
  11. mebgardner

    mebgardner Been here awhile

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    Nevermind...

    This page has all the details of the Hit-Air vests, and jackets, their models, and what they look like after deployed:

    http://www.eggparka.com/english/system/index.html

    So, I'm still looking at this, and at Helite Turtle. They're saying they can get the *vest* inflated in under 100 msec. (I think that's how I read their materials).

    So, it's not just the neck area in under 100 msec. This matters, to me.

    There's a timing study and explanation in this month's Motorcyclist magazine. An "average" eye blink is about 300-400 msec, or 35 ft. distance, at 60 MPH. That's approx. 90 ft. / sec.

    So, 100 msec? That's approx. 10 ft., the distance over a hood of a car before pavement. *That's* why it matters to me.
  12. mebgardner

    mebgardner Been here awhile

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    Yup, a different bladder design. Skinnier, and apparently smaller, not as much protection on sides or at tailbone. But, smaller does mean faster..

    I note the MLV and the VHR system both use the "B Box" gas cylinder (Not the "Y Box"), so they use the same CO2 cartridge.

    I also note the Helite systems say "CE Approved", or "CE Certified" for both the airbag and the armor. I can not find similar CE announcements on the Hit-Air site (the Japanese Denso owner website). I looked high and low, none to be found.

    CE Approved and Certified mean different things, but they carry testing meaning. Not having them does not mean it's a "bad" product, but which would you rayher have if given choices? CE announcements, or none? Yup, me too...
  13. FredBGG

    FredBGG Long timer

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    Dianese have a system with two co2 canisters and they claim to be a bit faster. However they are a new player in air-bags and their system uses more complicated
    triggering system. More to go wrong. It has electronics on the bike and the vest.

    Here is a video that explains the system

    Here is a video

    It's not too clear how much neck protection it offers.

    Also I wonder why they don't have a tether as a redundant backup to trigger the system if the electronics fail to trigger sooner.
  14. Barakaiki

    Barakaiki Been here awhile

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    [​IMG]

    This seems like the ticket right here for me


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  15. FredBGG

    FredBGG Long timer

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    I was wearing Sidi street boots...I have a size 15 wide. I made a longer shift level to accommodate my big boot
    especially the Alpine Star Tech 8 boots.
  16. S21FOLGORE

    S21FOLGORE Been here awhile

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    To mebgardner,

    About safety rating and testing of Hit Air vest.
    Mugen Denko (not Denso), the company that makes / sells Hit-Air airbag vest / jacket does show the test data,

    here
    http://www.eggparka.com/english/test_data/2011jari/index.html

    here
    http://www.eggparka.com/english/test_data/airbang_sistem/index.html

    and here
    http://www.eggparka.com/english/data/shogeki/index.html

    All the test done by JARI (Japan Automotive Research Institute).
    http://www.jari.or.jp/tabid/200/Default.aspx

    Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not bashing Helite, but, Helite web site only says

    “TURTLE CE Approved Airbag effective in 0.1 seconds”

    No EN number shown.

    You may want to research a little bit more, about what they mean by saying “CE approved”.

    Forcefield body armor’s web site has a page that explains pretty good about this.

    http://www.forcefieldbodyarmour.com/technology/

    Another thing you may want to consider, is that wearing the airbag vest block air flow.
    By design, Helite turtle airbag vest completely blocks air flow on your back.
    If it’s too uncomfortable to wear a backpack when you ride in the summer, most probably Helite turtle is too hot and uncomfortable and you will stop wearing it.
    If you don’t wear the vest, even if the vest has best design and offer the best protection on the market, it won’t protect you.
    So, you may want to ask around, how tolerable the vest is (in hot / warm weather),
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  17. mebgardner

    mebgardner Been here awhile

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    Thanks, S21, I will! You're right, there is no EN number shown. "Approved" really does not mean much, something like "Yeah, we agree to examine and test it further", and I think not much more than that.

    I wish I could say that I've heard about JARI before this. Basically never heard of them.

    The "effective in 0.1 seconds" (100 msec) is sort of wonky too, open to interpretation about what "effective" really means. It would be better to say something like "entire airbag device inflated to 150 BAR within 100 msec.", that would be much better. But they don't huh?

    Hit-Air is not much better. I see the CE symbol on the page excerpted Barak, above. Yet, they don't say *what* has the CE label approved.

    I guess / think we're early in this market maturity. I'm *so* glad to have this type of offering available at all. "Stuff's Getting Better". (from The Postman.).
  18. S21FOLGORE

    S21FOLGORE Been here awhile

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    FYI, Hit-Air’s chest, back protectors are CE certified. (as well as the shoulder and elbow armor in the jacket.)
    For example, their chest protector
    CE prEN1621-3
    http://www.eggparka.com/english/lineup/parts/index.html#hc

    Back protector
    EN1621-2
    http://www.eggparka.com/english/lineup/parts/index.html#3

    And, as far as I know, there’s no CE rating system for “wearable airbag vest/jacket” MC gear at this moment (still in draft stage ?) , hence there’s no EN number on the vest itself.

    The strange thing is, Mugen Denko’s Japanese version web site clearly states that their protectors are CE rated, but US version web site doesn’t.
    http://www.hit-air.com/lineup/motorrad-2/index.html
    http://www.hit-air.com/lineup/eu6/index.html

    http://www.hit-air.com/lineup/t202/index.html

    I suppose you can’t read Japanese, but you can see CE mark and EN number.
    In their Japanese site, they clearly say that it is the protectors (back, chest, shoulder and elbow) part that are CE certified.

    Anyway, at least, they (Mugen Denko) are honest enough to show the EN number (so that you, as a potential buyer, will know which part of the vest/ jacket is CE certified), instead of just saying “our product xxx is CE approved (which does NOT mean it is CE certified, like you said). Again, I am NOT attacking Helite airbag vest. I honestly believe they both work equally well in the real life examples.
    Do a little bit more research, and I hope you can find the one that fits your requirement.
  19. FredBGG

    FredBGG Long timer

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    CE certification is an interesting subject. You can buy absolute rubbish that is CE certified. Plenty of pants out there with
    CE certified knee, shoulder or elbow pads..... but the gear they are built into do not keep the pads where they should be.
    Even some pretty expensive "Adventure Gear" with CE certification can be close to worthless in a crash.

    So always take CE approval or certification with a pinch of salt.
  20. ShineySideUp

    ShineySideUp Long timer

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    I've been wearing the Hit-Air vest for about 12k miles. Yes it does block some air, however, I would prefer to have some air blocked rather than ride without a air-bag vest. A benefit of having the vest style vs. the jacket with the built in air-bag, with the vest you can change which jacket you wear under the vest depending on weather or if your riding street or dirt. I will not ride without a air bag vest.
    FredBGG - thank you very much for posting your video and your helpful commentary about your incident.
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