[Crashed] Motorport Kevlar Mesh Pant and Stretch Jacket

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by stupidfacebutternuts, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    I biffed it at 65mph (van ran me over a curb) wearing a jacket and levis jeans. Luckily I landed in grass and rolled it out. Likewise I had a guy lowside and take out my rear tire somewhere around 90mph (I think, it was on the track) I slid long enough to melt the underarmor I was wearing under my Vanson 1pc to my thigh. That was fun to take off later.

    That Vanson was deemed no need to send back unless I wanted it to be pretty, and since it was like 10-15 year old at the time I passed. I sold that suit because it shrank :lol3

    On that note the cutting edge currently IMHO is Dianese and their D-Air offerings. They are SILLY expensive, but its the technology shown in that video. direct racing derived tip-of-the-spear stuff. You can do a two-piece in leather or textile with an algorithmic (no tether) activation THAT is money. A lot of money. Three-thousand bucks worth.
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  2. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Been here awhile

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    I wish I had some personal crash tests to share but I've only crashed 3 times, all at fairly low speed, and none of them involved any injury at all! Nor damage to the clothing I was wearing which varied from full Lewis leathers to levi jeans and fashion leather jacket. The clothing actually played no part. I think it was just luck or low-speed. I can't say the same for my bike which was totalled in a t-bone crash with a van. My cat-like reflexes and ninja training probably saved me from any injury. Just kidding. Real world crashes are so variable on the streets that anecdotal reports are a bit useless, scientifically speaking.

    On the other hand, motorGP seems closer to scientific because there are so many repeated incidents that you could almost collect data from them. However, it applies less to public street riders, unfortunately.

    Racing suits generally are incredibly good at abrasion but then the armour type comes into question. I think air bag technology is definitely a revolution which we'll see a lot more of when it becomes more affordable - impact transmission reduced to <2kn in CE tests are possible. Dainese makes decent gear for racers but their street rider jacket didn't do that well in motocap tests nor did Alpinestars https://www.motocap.com.au/products/jackets

    There were much cheaper jackets that did considerably better. Rjays (not well known outside Australia) and RST (A popular, lower cost UK company) faired much better. You could make the cheaper leather jackets more crashworthy just by replacing their armour with CE level 2 (probably by Forcefield or Knox or another well tested product).

    You made a great point about friction burns and heat transfer which isn't usually tested for. As far as I know, only Covec used by Bull-it jeans and others tout their low heat transfer capabilities. I'd love to get Covec's airflow suit as an under armour garment but I'm too poor at the moment.
  3. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    Friction burns are going to be an outlier, its very very rare that you slide that far without leaving a solid surface.

    In that case I was entering the straight, and a guy lost it TWO turns behind me, the bike crossed the grass and nailed me. Just so happened that it knocked the bike out from under me just as I fired it down the main straight.....so I go to do the WHOLE slide.

    I don't see the D-air listed, it would be over the top of the prices on your motoCAP site. That A* rates poorly doesn't surprise me at all. I stopped wearing their stuff after seeing a number of failures, and not on low end stuff, this was supposed to be their primo race quality. But this is what I am talking about

    https://www.dainese.com/us/en/corporate/d-air/system/
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  4. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Been here awhile

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    https://www.dainese.com/us/en/corporate/d-air/system/

    I think the tech is pretty amazing but at $2500-4000 for their suits, I can only dream of being wealthy enough to get one. They do use a lot of hype on their website but when you dig deeper you see that their air-bag was tested and did very well in the CE airbag tests. Similar results to others very protectiveness but the difference is it doesn't inflate if you don't need it, such as lowsides with no tumble. That's the accelerometer doing it's thing. Hopefully, within 10 years, we'll see airbag tech for bikers at the <$200 level and full certified too. There are some Chinese copies of Helite style vests for around $280 but they aren't certified independently so I wouldn't trust them.

    tests results: Dainese-airbag-chest.jpg
  5. Trailrider200

    Trailrider200 Long timer

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    According to Aldi, the jacket passes stringent requirements for impact abrasion and impact cut resistance demanded by the EN13595-1: standard Level 2. With the jacket on (which possesses a weight only real motorcyclists will be immediately used to) one can certainly feel all the plates of protective armour in the arms and along the back. In addition, the garment exceeds the requirement for impact abrasion, which means it can be dragged along a road surface for at least seven seconds before tearing. In fact the Aldi jacket achieved over 13 seconds of abrasion resistance across all zones of the garment. This is all according to Aldi however.

    https://www.aldi.co.uk/ from a large marketing company which is well know as a food market that sells motorcycle gear only certain times of the yr. who makes the gear for aldi? some small company in Mongolia?
  6. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Been here awhile

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    "To achieve a genuine CE Approval, the garment construction as well as the materials have to achieve the performance levels outlined in the standard, including abrasion resistance, cut resistance and burst strength, in multiple zones."

    There are actually about 40 different tests. I've just referenced the most interesting 3 above.

    Aldi's Crane motorcycle gear is made in China mostly, according to the labels. I lived and worked in China for 3 years and know they make the worst AND best quality stuff. Quality control is the key. So the worst stuff is made for the local market, generally. The best stuff is made for export, as long as you watch the QC (quality control) and also design it for them. For example, all Apples products are designed in the USA and made in China. Similarly, Aldi/Crane had consultant experts help them on design, I believe.

    Actually, the CE approval was done by Satra, which is just one of several official test sites.

    I'm curious if they'll release any gear this summer. Apparently, you can still release EN13595 certified gear even though EN17092 has superseded it. By all accounts EN17092 is easier to pass because it uses Darmstadt instead of the more aggressive Cambridge machine. Logically, Crane's gear should pass AAA level. We'll see.
  7. Wayne at Motoport

    Wayne at Motoport Been here awhile

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    This is the exact opposite of the truth. My major problem with CE/Satra/EN Certification was that it didn't simulate properly, when a rider crashes a motorcycle. You are pointing out another serious problem, with scientific testing. How can Satra properly simulate all the different factors that apply when a rider crashes??
  8. Wayne at Motoport

    Wayne at Motoport Been here awhile

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    No Motoport apparel made in the USA was tested.
  9. Wayne at Motoport

    Wayne at Motoport Been here awhile

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  10. travel_man

    travel_man Travel_Man Supporter

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    Bill, sorry to hear this but happy to hear you on the mend. Rest well my friend!
  11. Bill 310

    Bill 310 Poser Emeritus Super Supporter

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    Greg I will see you at WA checkpoints
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  12. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Been here awhile

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    We are going around in circles. You're ignoring my points and you say I'm ignoring yours. So here's a kind, useful suggestion:

    https://www.motocap.com.au/contact

    You can get your suit(s) tested for a "low fee" by motocap. I suggest the air mesh because it's Australia.

    This seems like a win-win situation for you. Based on your marketing claims, your suits are the best, your armour is the best SO you will ace motocap's tests and you'll be able to add actual evidence that you're the best to your marketing. All for a "low fee". None of that annoying, expensive CE approval that costs thousands of useless dollars. Your sales in Australia and elsewhere will skyrocket. You'll be a hero and convince the skeptics.

    So how about it?
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  13. Bill 310

    Bill 310 Poser Emeritus Super Supporter

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    Really, this is where you want to take this?

    If you want to take on a manufacturer on the internet why don’t you go after BMW and get them to own up to just one of their known defects

    I’ll take final drives for 10,000 failures, Alex

    Or

    I’ll take cam chain failures for 5,000

    Or

    I’ll take do not ride letters for new model introduction

    Your baiting of Wayne is becoming more than tiring.The last I looked no one has to buy his suits, sure they are expensive but they are custom made to fit and they seem to work pretty well. No piece of protective gear is ever perfect that is a given

    I bought my first one after meeting a rider who had summersaulted his FJR in the Arctic at speed on the Haul Road and his bike looked like something out of Mad Max. As I just learned that was money well spent.

    That rider told me his Moto Port suit was the only thing that saved him.I saw his bike, saw his suit, and bought one as soon as I got home

    I expect Wayne has enough business so why would he bother incurring significant costs jumping through hoops to please you? Australia is not that tempting a market Wayne would be better off to try and expand further in.to the North American police market

    Selling into Australia would be a very costly low margin business plan .Australia has 25 million people California, Oregon and Washington state have close to 50 million and they are within 1000 miles of his plant.

    Some times it is just easier to not court or work with a certain group of customers , we call it the 80/20:rule

    Wayne is going far and beyond trying to be responsive in his role as a manufacturer and it is clear you can’t be satisfied so maybe just go for a long ride.

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  14. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Been here awhile

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    I'd be happy to go after BMW but motocap.com.au has already tested one of their jackets and it got 1 star for abrasion. So motocap did the job quite well.

    I do go after other companies.
    This week, I wrote emails to Klim, Bull-it and motocap. The first 2 replied very politely and said they are getting all their gear approved to CE EN17092. Still waiting for motocap but I only sent an email today.

    I'm not baiting Wayne. I'm disappointed with him. He won't do CE approvals because it's too expensive. However, I'm sure he would if he got a massive purchase order from Europe. He's a business man and a salesman. I get that. BTDT myself.

    So, I'm cutting through the back and forth, which is going nowhere, and suggesting something that MIGHT be good for his business and silence the skeptics and the undecided. There are probably more than you think. If Motoport were to ace the motocap.com.au tests, it would go way beyond Australia. Just as SHARP goes far beyond the UK. I would definitely buy a motoport air mesh again IF it gets 5 stars for safety in motocap.com.au tests. Probably used, unless I get my inheritance soon.

    I think there are sizeable minority of riders who do want certification, especially outside the USA and people who do believe in Consumer advocacy. As I mentioned earlier, I grew up on consumer tests (which? magazine in the UK) then lived my adult life reading "consumer reports" - a big consumer testing magazine in the USA. Do you know it?

    So I trust independent testing, never manufacturers claims. They are conflicting interests.

    Wayne is a business man promoting his gear. There's nothing wrong with that. HOWEVER, consumers need to verify manufacturers' claims from independent sources and anecdotal crashes don't count. Since there's no "consumer reports" for motorcycle gear, AFAIK, the best we have is CE/EN testing, MOTOCAP, SHARP, etc. Sadly, "Ride" magazine used to test stuff but it looks like the dropped out, maybe due to manufacturers' pressure.
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  15. AdvNener

    AdvNener Long timer

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    Well i guess the whole point is simply: you can't tell "X is better than Y regarding Z", without a repeatable and as operator independent as possible way to MEASURE Z. Add "all existing and more or less widely accepted way to measure Z are BAD", and guess what: eyebrows start to raise...
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  16. ThrillSeeka

    ThrillSeeka Been here awhile

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    I have no actual experience with Motoport gear so I cannot say anything with regards to it.

    What I have experience with is a lot of motorcycle gear, including armor. I've also spoken directly with several brands, including European ones who've told me how careful they have to be in their advertising claims. You cannot call your gear the most protective (or even protective) unless it has been tested and certified as such. Hyperbole in motorcycle gear within the European Union can get you into a lot of legal trouble. That's why you'll barely see a motorcycle-gear brand headquartered in the EU making any wild claims for their motorcycle gear.

    Most (if not all hyperbole) has come from motorcycle-gear brands from the USA and Asia (the latter being Ebay sellers who pump out their gear from the Sialkot region and, frequently, from the same factories making gear for established European and US brands).

    CE-marked PPE directives for motorcycle clothing are only legally binding to brands from within the EU. There's at least one brand from outside the EU which sells their motorcycle armor as, check this out, Level 3 and implies so in their marketing material. This brand is established in the US but originates from China. If they were established as a company in the EU, they'd soon be sued to oblivion. Last I checked they still sold their armor as "Level 3" and people were buying into it.

    One more thing WRT to someone calling out the spot on the gloves of the OP that failed: that's a common spot on a glove to sustain massive energy forces in a get off. It's why all motorcycle gloves that have been certified to CE 13594-2015 have a reinforced layer of cowhide right there and most gloves also have an additional palm slider on top (e.g. Knox Handroids) to avoid seam rupture or catastrophic failure of the cowhide.

    I even have a set of crashed gloves which had the slider on that same spot eaten away. My hands were unharmed thanks to the sliders (the gloves are still wearable) and the rest of my body was unharmed thanks to good motorcycle gear and CE-certified Level-2 armor (the handlebar of the bike smashed my knee; I felt the blow like a train smacking my knee. Hadn't it been for the Level-2 armor, I'd possibly be wearing a new knee). The knee armor I was wearing not only is CE-certified as Level 2 but the manufacturer also publishes the results of all their armor's CE 1621-1 tests. Their armor consistently achieves the highest impact absorption vs competitors too.
  17. Plebeian

    Plebeian Scruffy-Looking Nerf Herder Supporter

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    A business man willing to engage with nay-sayers on the internet. A business man competing with huge companies in a competitive field. A business man who has decided that he doesn't want to use certain for-profit testing options for his company. A business man selling premium-priced gear with high-end materials, custom tailoring and an independent take on moto protection.

    Who are you? From your posts, an ultra-cheap moto rider with a major chip on your shoulder towards expensive gear.

    We get it. You've made your point multiple times. You found a highly regarded, cheap option for your needs. Well done. Enjoy it. You don't believe Wayne's claims and wouldn't buy one of his products new, even if it passed every test you could come up with.

    What is your goal here? To get a company, that you have no stake in and is way out of your price range, to do what YOU think it should in the way of testing and marketing? You're not Wayne's target audience, it sounds like you never will be. I am surprised that he continues to engage...
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  18. KTM Mike

    KTM Mike Long timer

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    Yep, UK give it up. We get it. You don't like Wayne, or his suits. Move on.

    Wayne, my suggestion to you, keep on making your great gear, and don't take the bait of the likes of our UK Friend.

    Both my wife and I have Motoport gear. I bought mine used, my wife's was custom made, and looks great on her. It is well worth the cost. We both have used other gear, including Aerostich, and "feel" the Motoport gear offers the best protection of any we have used, particularly in highly vented gear. We are fans!

    IMG_20180513_181140325_HDR.jpg
  19. AdvNener

    AdvNener Long timer

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    In the end this looks like a cultural difference

    Let anyone claim whatever they want, let the customer choose if he wants to believe or not and vote with his wallet
    vs
    Enforce minimum standards and have some 3d party science/certification/tracking/testing behind your claims.

    Of course it's never 100% the one or the other, it's all about where we are used to have the threshold between those.
    I have a memory from when i was younger, when suddenly you were not allowed to say "(para)pharmaceutical product X helps againts/cures/improves/etc".. without legit studies and results behind the claim. A lot of tv ads disappared overnight.
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  20. Plebeian

    Plebeian Scruffy-Looking Nerf Herder Supporter

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    In all fairness, I may have come off more harshly towards UK than I intended. I do agree with much of what he is getting at, just seemed like more of a relentless attack than anything else.

    I am a big believer in the idea of mesh gear. I have a flexible-use bike, and find mesh to be the most flexible option. Mesh with armor for commuting. Mesh, armor removed, over a pressure suit for dual sport. Layer for warmth or rain protection. Inexpensive rain protection can be worn over the top for simplicity, or expensive gear can be worn underneath the abrasion protection.

    I have a popular-brand mesh jacket, but I have doubts about its abrasion resistance. And, it is more of a waist cut. I think that a 3/4 cut would work better for me.

    My research for a safer mesh option brought me to Motoport. I liked what I read and observed, and the price seemed fair. But, like UK, and being in marketing myself, I was a little put off by sections of the Motoport site. I, personally, would be much more receptive to less words and more certification. The rain-proof gear, for example. I can see that the construction is well thought out for moto use. But, there are tests available that can give an actual number to a product's rain protection and breathability. There is a lot of information about the waterproofing technology on the site, but nothing that is independently measurable. I appreciate the narrative-quality to Wayne's site. But, some brief, "hard" numbers would be welcome as well.

    I also take testimonials with a grain of salt. That said, there are A LOT of them out there. And, from multiple sources. Many with no connection to Wayne or Motoport. That is worth something IMO...

    In the end, each business has to weigh the pros and cons of paying for certifications.
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