[Crashed] Motorport Kevlar Mesh Pant and Stretch Jacket

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by stupidfacebutternuts, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Been here awhile

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    I also believe it's a cultural difference. Although I lived in the USA for 22 years, I grew up in the UK. My obsession with science started at an early age, probably because my relatives were all engineers.

    There are actually 2 CE standards being talked about here:

    CE in the USA is = Caveat Emptor
    CE in the EU is = Certification European

    OK, that was lame attempt at a joke (I stole it).

    Why do people think I hate Wayne? I liked him enough to buy a kevlar mesh jacket in 2006. Back then I didn't know shit about CE except it meant Caveat Emptor. So, I'd buy again if his gear ever is approved by any independent tests. I actually need a summer suit. My argument seemed utterly simple and unassailable. How wrong I was.

    Also, I could technically afford a brand new suit right now from Motoport - I have the money in the bank - but I believe I'm a savvy buyer who looks for the best value I can find. That might involve buying used stuff - Teknic leathers. Or stuff that does the trick without extra frills - Aldi. Even when I had a high-paying job in California, I bought used Japanese bikes and cars rather than American or European brand-new bikes and cars. So, yeah, I'm cheap. Guilty as charged.

    However, it's very upsetting to see customers who are less than thrilled with Motoport being put down for not toeing the line, by Motoport themselves and some of their customers. I also complain about any product that I think could be improved or is lacking somehow. I've contacted several companies recently: Bull-it and Klim. One difference is, they were very polite and accommodating.
    davidji likes this.
  2. Plebeian

    Plebeian Scruffy-Looking Nerf Herder Supporter

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    I hear what you are saying, but don't get the crusade. Why did you contact these companies with complaints? As someone said earlier, why not just vote with your dollars/euros/pounds? That is the only vote that is going to matter....
    KTM Mike likes this.
  3. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Been here awhile

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    Well, sometimes I’m just a customer, sometimes an activist for motorcycle safety. Here’s my communications but not all are complaints. Some are for info and some are for suggestions:

    Bull-it: I emailed to complain about my new sidewinder jeans Getting split seams on a bus ride, before I ever rode with them. I’d actually bought them on eBay for $65 and they were discontinued stock. The eBay buyer was no help. Bull-it mailed me a brand new pair of a new style for free. To Mongolia.
    Oh, I also asked them why their jeans only managed 2 seconds of abrasion time when they’ve been claiming 6 seconds on their website for years.

    Klim: I asked them if/when they’ll sell CE EN17092 approved gear. They are already doing it, apparently, but it doesn’t mention it anywhere online.

    Mocap: I emailed to ask if they’ll test the Aldi suit. I’d like to see how it compares to the other suits they tested. I’ll probably ask them to test Motoport too but I haven’t yet.
    davidji likes this.
  4. Plebeian

    Plebeian Scruffy-Looking Nerf Herder Supporter

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    Wanting to see hard numbers and/or certifications before buying is a sound strategy. Some don't mind rolling the dice on effective marketing/testimonials, some won't budge until they have something unbiased and measurable.

    A business isn't going to be swayed one way or another by feedback alone. Sales will dictate their policies regarding certification. If a business is doing well, has a solid reputation, and strong repeat purchasing, adding the cost of certification hoops, especially if they feel strongly that the tests are flawed, will not happen. So, to hammer away on the point isn't getting anywhere. IMO, both sides have clearly stated their positions. The certification debate has probably reached it's conclusion.
    ukAdventurer and thirdofthree like this.
  5. levain

    levain STILL Jim Williams Supporter

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    Agreed. Wayne has mentioned to me several times over the years that he has more business than he knows what to do with. Seems he's doing fine without certification from an organization across the pond or on the other side of the planet. In the end, it doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot. It's his business. He's given reasons why he isn't interested in certification and that's really where the argument should end. Forums like this are for discussion, so it's all good up to a certain point, then one should just back off.
  6. frog13

    frog13 Long timer

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    Yeah , disparaging remarks have been made against me and Motoport gear on the 700x forum regarding Waynes Kevlar gear. The individual sites UV degradation in short order and advises Kevlar is a poor choice for out door gear . Oh well , I like my Motoport gear......since 2012. Continue on Wayne! . : )
    MZ5, Forty-Won, Rockred and 2 others like this.
  7. frog13

    frog13 Long timer

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    This same individual made negative comments about treating gear with UV protectorant.....wow. I suppose he doesn't believe in waxing / washing or taking care of gear or machines either:1drink.
  8. frog13

    frog13 Long timer

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    Certification cost.......just isn't worth it at times.....like our public schools. Certification doesn't necessarily tell the actual abilities of things. IIRC......Motoport gear was / is tested on the Autobahn; true feedback from actual wearer's / incidents.
  9. spuh

    spuh Been here awhile

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    Certification cost pales in comparison to an advertising budget. Of course Motoport has neither. If cost IS an issue, I'd like to see a reptition of Andy Goldfine's original abrasion test, replicated by at least one moto mag in the early days of Aerostich. Basically involved dragging a patch of each fabric bihind a pickup truck. Repeated with today's materials of course. There's so much variability to crashes ; it would be good to see how available fabrics compare in one controlled test.
    ukAdventurer likes this.
  10. frog13

    frog13 Long timer

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    Autobahn was enough for Motoport and the rest is history:clap
  11. Trailrider200

    Trailrider200 Long timer

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    In 1985, Motoport, in conjunction with the West German government, started the most in-depth study of motorcycle injuries. The directive of this study was to develop the first motorcycle apparel designed using the medical- and science-perspective. One of the main Engineers in the study, Dr. Dietmar Otte, head of the Department of Accident Research at the Hanover Institute of Medicine in Germany stated:

    “The development aim was to systematically convert all accident research into actual practice, resulting in a safety concept which protects the statistically most endangered body regions. As a passionate motorcyclist myself, I can confirm that the Body Guard System is an excellent fulfillment of the aim.”

    During a four-year period, Motoport studied the injuries sustained in over 500 crashes. These crashes were serious, resulting in severe injuries or death to the riders. The crashes that were studied in Germany occurred on the autobahn, rural areas, and in cities. Four doctors analyzed and recorded all the details of each injury. Autopsies were performed on the riders, documenting injuries that resulted in death. The details of the crashes and the apparel worn were also studied.

    The study’s finding were alarming. It was revealed that the most serious injury to the body was the initial impact area. In 83.2% of cases, the initial impact was below the waist. The main initial impact was the knee/shin and full front-to-back thigh area. Over one third resulted in broken-bone injuries. Well over half of the victims (59.4%) suffered arm injuries. Other body regions that received frequent severe injuries were the shoulders, chest, and collar bone.

    To understand the percentage ratios, it is important to know that after initial impact, other areas of the body were also damaged.
    see picture of ratios here https://www.motoport.com/motoport-an-evolution/

    Placement of the armor was no longer an uncertainty. Motoport learned from this study the most endangered regions of the body. Motoport also learned more about seam and material failures.

    There have been three other major studies on motorcycle apparel involved in crashes since the Motoport study completion in 1988. It is interesting to note that these other studies’ results were almost identical to Motoport’s. Yet with all these studies, Motoport is the only company to directly apply the knowledge learned into manufacturing the most versatile/protective motorcycle apparel.

    To protect the rider from abrasion and impact injuries, a unique combination of special materials was required. In 1988 Motoport introduced the Body Guard System. Underneath the thick cowhide exterior of the suits, in Velcro-secured pockets, Motoport placed the Body Guard Armor. In 1988 thick animal skin was the only known material that would provide adequate tear/abrasion strength. Impact resistant plates consisting of 1/8” thick, hard Polypropylene shells backed with nearly ½” of impact absorbent foam, were used for armor. In the event of an accident, the shells spread the blow across their entire surface area – very much like how a modern bulletproof vest works. Once the initial shock has been transmitted throughout the shells, the residual impact force is greatly reduced by the thick absorbent foam, drastically lowering the risk of traumatic injury to the rider. These Body Guard suits made in 1988 would protect the rider better than the highest rated EN Certified Motorcycle apparel made today.

    • Body Guard Worldwide Patents:
    • Europe patent – 0083454
    • U.S.A patent – 4,538,301
    • Japan patent – 65205
    Since 1988, the Body Guard System has undergone constant improvement. The impact protection, comfort, weight of the armor and suit, have all been improved. Motoport realized that for the Body Guard System to protect the rider, it must be worn. In order for it to be worn, it must work well in hot/cold/wet weather, be lightweight, and be comfortable. Therefore, Motoport had to consider the suit’s comfort, as much as its protective qualities, so riders would wear the gear.

    If you attend any of the larger road races it is possible to find a leather company or a person that repairs leather gear at the track. If you were to ask the question: “What is the most common failure with leather suits?,” the company or individual repairing the leather suits would report: “The most common problem of leather suits at road races are seam failures.” Unless a complete seam fails, in a tumble, this usually doesn’t result in serious injuries to the road racer. Most tracks are designed so that, when a rider crashes, there is plenty of run-off room before any fixed objects can be hit. In the majority of road racing crashes the rider tumbles and slides. Combining the fast-forward speeds along with the rider tumbling, it makes low impact to the suit and seams. The priority of road racing suits is the abrasion resistance that good leather can provide. Tear-, seam-, and puncture-strength of the suit material are far more important for street riders. In a 10mph crash, hitting a fixed object, (car, guard rail, tree etc.), there can be more impact to the rider than crashing at over 100mph on a road-racing track. Even the best leather cannot provide adequate tear-, seam-, and puncture-strength for street-riding protection.
    frog13, Rockred and theregulator like this.
  12. SASteve

    SASteve Been here awhile

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    I know this thread started bitching about the Motoport protection, I think the op came out pretty good myself but this thread turned me on to Motoport and started my internet sleuthing into their gear, which turned into a visit to their showroom, which turned into an order 5 weeks ago. Must say I was impressed with everything I could find on them, I was impressed with what I saw at the factory, and I just got confirmation my new mesh marathon delivers today just in time for the heat of summer - thanks op :beer
  13. DesertDonor

    DesertDonor Deep Sand and Mud Detector

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    You betcha. As New Mexico enters the oven months I'm finding my Marathon in stretch is nowhere near as hot as my old Tourmaster was. There's just no comparison.
    frog13 and Trailrider200 like this.
  14. frog13

    frog13 Long timer

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    Exactly......no comparison.
  15. stupidfacebutternuts

    stupidfacebutternuts n00b

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    I guess you're welcome? I'm happy my painful crash and disappointment in Motoport could convince you to give them money :jack