CRF500L full build thread

Discussion in 'Japanese polycylindered adventure bikes' started by michaelkozera, Jul 2, 2015.

  1. Night_Wolf

    Night_Wolf Leg Humper

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,437
    Location:
    Lat: N 90°00'00" Long: N/A
    I am under 55 (53 in Sept) live just south of you in Okotoks :wave own the CB500X as well as 2 other bikes (see sigfile) & yes I think in Fahrenheit, Lbs & Imperial Gallons :hide
    colddog and ywr969 like this.
  2. LocuL

    LocuL Gnarly Steward

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,113
    Location:
    Denmark - Jutland

    Most waste is 60% which goes to heat stuff around the engine...
  3. michaelkozera

    michaelkozera Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Oddometer:
    1,434
    Location:
    calgary
    so im really thinking of making a 2nd crf500L

    the new cb500x has:

    -abs
    -slipper clutch
    -lighter clutch pull
    -more hp/tq
    -much better instrument cluster
    -stainless steel exhaust header

    and a whole bunch of other things too

    i wanna buy a crf250l rally, remove the useless bottom plastic fairing, and replace with a gigantic wrap around skid plate.

    my biggest concern is the ABS, where and how to mount....... gonna be a total nightmare.
    RPM25, shaqattack, KayDubbya and 2 others like this.
  4. Bounder

    Bounder Typing...

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Oddometer:
    2,140
    Location:
    West Cork, Ireland
    What about fitting the cb500x into the cr450l frame ?
    Lajbi likes this.
  5. Chillis

    Chillis Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    17,361
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    As a 450L owner with the Vortex ECU and full exhaust system, it would be losing performance by adding weight and not getting much power advantage for the hassle. The point being making a very heavy dirtbike with lights? I get that maintenance would be reduced but you would also be killing off the performance or the original bike. A bike that is not cheap to begin with.
    todd900ss likes this.
  6. Oyabun

    Oyabun 親分

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Oddometer:
    747
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    Umm. The dyno charts I've see so far were around 38hp for the stock crf450l, and about 45 for ones with full exhaust and Vortex or other aftermarket fueling.
    The cb500x dynoes to 43-44 in stock form and we tune these engines to 55 to 67 hp depending on state of tune. I don't see this as loosing any performance.

    EDIT: rereading it might be that you're meaning loosing performance as a package due to increased weight. Wich might be the case. As far as I remember the 500x engine only increased weight marginally compared to the 250 mill and therefore I assume that it would not add much over the 450L engine weight either.
  7. Oyabun

    Oyabun 親分

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Oddometer:
    747
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    Even the pre-19 500x had ABS (only north America had an option to buy these without ABS) but the 500x ABS has been programmed for 17/17 or 19/17 wheels, and not switchable. While the CRF250 Rally has switchable ABS (rear circuit can be switched off) and physically the ABS unit is the same as the 500x, crf1000 etc, just has a few more circuits implemented.
    Can't you keep the ABS unit at it's original place?
    Also we've hacked the pre-19 500x ecu and made quite a few engines by now, and can have more power from those mills too. Unfortunately the 19 models have a new ecu what is yet to be cracked.
    As I see only major difference is the slipper/assist clutch - what is a great addition. Two things to consider tho. The oem slipper clutch is a street version - dunno how it would perform on the long term, but I know that racers are dumping those units for proper adjustable slippers - with your smooth riding style it should be non-issue tho. The bigger concern is that the new engine side cases are wider that the earlier models mainly due the new clutch arrangement so the rear brake lever would be an even bigger challenge than the current one.
    michaelkozera likes this.
  8. michaelkozera

    michaelkozera Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Oddometer:
    1,434
    Location:
    calgary
    Didnt know about the wider engine. Makes sense cuz slipper clutch.

    As for the abs. If u wanna sell me an abs 250 rally sure. As u cannot buy an abs version here in canada..... i know right? Lol
  9. Oyabun

    Oyabun 親分

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Oddometer:
    747
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    Lol. Different markets I guess. You can't buy one without ABS here in Europe.
  10. michaelkozera

    michaelkozera Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Oddometer:
    1,434
    Location:
    calgary
    its actually super infuriating.

    like ABS should be standard on all bikes. but at the very least give me the option of buying either or......
  11. Chillis

    Chillis Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    17,361
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Have you seen the motor in the 450L?

    It is the 450R motor, widened for the 6th gear and of course less aggressive cam and compression. Heavier crank as well to smooth out power delivery. The engine is tiny. I doubt that 500 Honda engine can come close in weight.

    Slap a 450R cam and I think head gasket and requisite tuning and you are in the 55 to 60 up range.
    ywr969 likes this.
  12. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Unicorn breeder

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Oddometer:
    9,014
    Location:
    California
    It wouldn't fit between the frame spars - plus an extruded aluminium frame would be almost impossible to modify successfully...

    If you want a more substantial chassis than the CRF250L offers, I'd suggest using something like an XR400R or even XR600/650L frame - steel tubes are much easier to cut, add-in and re-weld, plus the backbone style frame itself would offer a lot more room to try and squeeze the CB motor in.

    Your only other option might be the XR650R alloy frame (as the 650R engine was a similar size/shape to the CB500) - but again you're likely to come up with all sorts of issues [trying to cut, insert and weld] aluminium to make it fit/line up around the new engine.

    Jx

    edit. Actually, somebody really ought to stick the CB500 engine in a 650L and prove the concept - that would prompt Honda to do something similar themselves I feel.
  13. michaelkozera

    michaelkozera Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Oddometer:
    1,434
    Location:
    calgary
    Also
    If i do decide to make a 2nd one. The engine is gonna be 100% rubber mounted.

    Rubber mounted everything.

    Even the rear wheel. Cush drive
    Chillis, ywr969 and OHjim like this.
  14. wiz.au

    wiz.au Ceased riding for now.

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Oddometer:
    2,317
    Location:
    ACT, Australia
    I'm still hanging out for a DRZ450EFI Rallye.... CB500 in a CRF250RLA frame... hmm, close, but still not quite there.
    Chillis likes this.
  15. MotoPolo

    MotoPolo So many places, so little time Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Oddometer:
    916
    Location:
    Portland OR
    Just curious why you think ABS is important for a dirt or offroad bike?
  16. michaelkozera

    michaelkozera Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Oddometer:
    1,434
    Location:
    calgary
    i will admit having modern offroad oriented ABS on the front wheel only ( like my africa twin) is actully really nice. But not necessary.

    Abs is a total life saver on the road tho. Too many times have i " almost" crashed cuz i was 12 hrs into a ride, final 30 mins home, tired, Getting dark,hungry, raining.. Etc etc.

    Nobody needs abs if they are just going on a 20 min rip.
    Nobody needs abs if they are 100% paying attention.
    Nobody needs abs if they are wide awake on a fenced highway.

    When u ride as many Km's as i do in a year the benifits of abs start adding up real fast.
    Night_Wolf, MotoPolo and ywr969 like this.
  17. wiz.au

    wiz.au Ceased riding for now.

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Oddometer:
    2,317
    Location:
    ACT, Australia
    At some point you have to ride on the road, if it's a true 'ADV' bike, not just a trailer riding trails bike you only ride for a few hours then put back on the trailer and drive home.

    When I pulled up to a set of lights on a rainy day, on the way home, and there was oil all over the white lane arrow markings I didn't see.... saved my arse that day for sure. If the ABS didn't cut in, I wouldn't have even known the oil was there to do anything about it. And I would have face planted for sure after the front wheel locked up and slid out.

    But I don't have ABS on the current F650GS Dakar I'm riding. It was a bike that just happened to be delivered without it.
    But the next bike I get will definitely have off-road ABS on it.

    Anyway, not trying to tell anyone they should or shouldn't, it's their choice. Just voicing my own humble opinion.
    I'm sure there are thousands of pages on here debating the pro's/cons.
  18. Scutty

    Scutty Talent-limited bike builder and rider

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Oddometer:
    740
    Location:
    Sunny Surrey, UK
    Is your engine a bit vibey then Michael? Mine is around 5k rpm.

    I would kill for a cush drive ............
  19. Oyabun

    Oyabun 親分

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Oddometer:
    747
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    As far as I understand he is using his bikes on long road commutes to
    All are vibey around 5k rpm. Could not find the source yet. I believe it should be some harmonic frequency of the engine.

    But it is still _much_ better than any single.
  20. michaelkozera

    michaelkozera Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Oddometer:
    1,434
    Location:
    calgary
    Yeah. I think its the cams/valves. As when i did a valve check vibes almost disappeared. But they come back after a few thousand kms.

    Its actully not that vibey at all at 5k rpm. But becuase the engine is soo smooth from idle to about 4700. Then smooth again at 5300rpm all the way to red line. So becuase its so smooth all rpms, u really do notice the vibes at 5k. Even if they are not very bad.