Crime in Baja . . . discuss.

Discussion in 'Latin America' started by Pelon, Nov 19, 2007.

  1. Jaqhammar

    Jaqhammar Hooligan

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    Explain to me how you can have 7 hour gun battle between narco crims and cops?

    Don't cops in MX call for back-up?
    Aren't there different sorts of cops, feds and military units available for assistance?

    For a gun battle to last 7 hours one side must have been forted up inside a building?
    So like I say...why wasn't the area swarming with cops?

    I'm real curious to hear the answer to this one.
    #81
  2. Pelon

    Pelon Dia Por Dia

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    Yep. It was like a seige. Until you have seen this kind of shit for yourself, you have no idea how CRAZY it is!

    Several weeks ago, I was just a few blocks from another gun battle that raged for well over an hour. We were locked down while it played itself out. :eek1
    #82
  3. Jaqhammar

    Jaqhammar Hooligan

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    Bit of a social observation here...

    When criminals start blasting away at Police stations, having major shoot outs with lawmen; that tells me that law and order is breaking down big time.

    Even when the IRA attacked Police stations and Military units in Northern Ireland is was real quick hit and run stuff...and that was an unofficial war.
    The IRA didn't see themselves as criminals.

    But when you have groups of people who are most definetly of the criminal class attacking police officers on public streets in broad daylight...well that tells me that things are going to hell in a handbasket.
    It tells me that the crims reckon they can get away with it, that they don't believe the police have the means or the ability to control them.
    And that's not good.

    This is in a major Mexican city, a high population centre, a place where there are likely to be more police than in the provinces.

    This is the kind of action you'd expect to see in Baghdad, not just over the border from the United States.

    It doesn't take a tactical genius to realise that if it gets worse the military will be doing street patrols and there will be curfews at night.

    All this in a 'civilised' country.

    It's not a good scenario.
    Unfortunatly it's the fault of the normal citizens also.
    It's the same the world over.
    The ordinary citizens, the general public...in any place or country where the rule of law and order begins to break down...if only they would take a stand, patrol their own streets, secure their own suburbs...but of course they don't and won't...they don't want to get involved, they don't want to risk getting hurt, they don't want to risk 'upsetting' the bad guys.
    I mean hey, it's what they pay the cops and military for right?

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

    So much of the history of the struggle between good and evil can be explained by Edmund Burke's observation. Time and again those who profess to be good seem to clearly outnumber those who are evil, yet those who are evil seem to prevail far too often. Seldom is it the numbers that determine the outcome, but whether those who claim to be good men are willing to stand up and fight for what they know to be right. There are numerous examples of this sad and awful scenario being played out over and over again throughout history. Both in times past and in today's modern world.

    I'll bugger off back to my own sandbox now. :wink:

    Cheers: Jaq.
    #83
  4. bananaman

    bananaman transcontimental

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    Why do you use such big font?
    #84
  5. Pelon

    Pelon Dia Por Dia

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    It happens in EVERY country, amigo. Cf., Oklahoma City.
    #85
  6. forward

    forward n00b

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    Howdy from Canada!

    FYI, an earlier quote on Canadian murder rates in 1999 is incorrect:

    "Murders in 1999
    Mexico ....6517 ...............pop. 100mill
    Canada.... 2018............... pop. 30 mill
    USA .........18,233 ............pop 300 mill.
    Close to the same per capita. in fact canada the highest.
    "

    In 1999 Canada's national murder rate was 536 (1.66 per 100,000). That makes Canada's murder rate remarkably lower than USA or Mexico. So you all feel free to leave your guns at home, and come on up for a visit!

    This information is available at http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/000718/d000718a.htm
    #86
  7. Jaqhammar

    Jaqhammar Hooligan

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    You are mistaken.

    It doesn't happen in Australia or New Zealand mate.
    It doesn't happen in many countries.

    Wasn't Oklahoma City a bomb blast?
    Not a firearm attack and a shootout with local police agencies?

    A bomb blast is not confrontational.
    Attacking police officers and police stations with firearms is a different story.
    #87
  8. Pelon

    Pelon Dia Por Dia

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    What about the 8 bikies at the Grappa? I seem to recall that was a fairly big deal. :deal

    And as for your distinction, I'll take my chances in a hail of gunfire over a fertilizer bomb, thank you very much.:eek1
    #88
  9. JoeMongo

    JoeMongo ¿Por dónde? Supporter

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    Ain't no crime in Baja. At least none that I ever saw. Just returned form 2 1/2 weeks down to Los Cabos and back. People followed me around returning my "left on the counter" sunglasses, and I WAS NEVER EVEN SHORT CHANGED! I thought I was once, but it was actually the bottle deposit.

    Sheesh, I felt like I was in a foreign country or something. I would have been abused much worse here in NorCal, and don't even ask about how I've been treated in SoCal.
    #89
  10. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    worse shits happens on the US coastline.
    #90
  11. freeflow

    freeflow get in or go in Supporter

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    the US would put us in jail in no time for the way most of us ride in Baja.

    speeding is a crime too ya know.:lol3


    the sky is not falling. relax.
    #91
  12. ontheborder

    ontheborder Been here awhile

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    Mexico Security Memo: March 10, 2008

    Stratfor Today » March 10, 2008 | 2115 GMT
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    Related Special Topic Page

    Tijuana Lives up to Its Reputation

    The violent city of Tijuana, Baja California state, more than lived up to its reputation for mayhem this past week thanks to a series of incidents that left more than a dozen people dead. In a March 3 incident that sparked a six-hour gunbattle, military forces responding to an anonymous tip arrived at a suspected safe-house only to be met with gunfire as they sought entry. The soldiers established a security cordon around the area and waited for army special forces. The military forces led the raid on the building, and detained several gunmen who had sheltered inside. Later in the week, a police patrol came under fire when it sought to stop a convoy of suspicious vehicles. In another incident, police reported the discovery of five kidnapping victims, including one teenager.
    While these kinds of violent incidents have become routine for the city, organized criminal activity in Tijuana has become increasingly fractured over the years. Historically, the city’s criminal networks have been involved with the Arellano Felix crime family. Also known as the Tijuana cartel, the Arellano Felix organization at one time was among the most powerful criminal organizations in Mexico. Following the arrest of several top members in the 1990s, however, the cartel lost much of its power. As a result, many of the smaller gangs that once worked for the cartel lost their source of income, and began expanding their operations to other activities to make money.
    An Arellano Felix Brother Returns

    The return of one of the cartel’s former leaders could change the equation. Francisco Rafael Arellano Felix was released from a U.S. prison this past week and deported to Mexico, where he became a free man for the first time since 1993. The oldest brother in the family, Francisco Rafael at one time was responsible for organizing cocaine purchases from Colombian suppliers. He was arrested in 1993 by police in Tijuana on weapons charges, and was behind bars in Mexico until 2006, when he was extradited to the United States and sentenced to six years for selling cocaine to an undercover Drug Enforcement Administration agent in 1980. Given credit for time served in Mexico, however, he was released after just two years.
    Although Francisco Rafael has been out of the picture for 15 years, it seems likely that he will eventually go back to the family business. It is difficult to determine what impact this change will have on the cartel’s operations, however, especially since his return might not be welcomed by other criminal organizations in the city. One important area to watch is whether the cartel becomes involved in the cocaine business. It has been several years since the Tijuana cartel has been involved in large-scale independent cocaine trafficking, but it is possible that Francisco Rafael’s previous experience in coordinating cocaine purchases could be put to use again. While significant changes to Tijuana’s dynamic will not happen overnight, potential ramifications of the former leader’s return must be watched closely.
    Targeting Small Gangs in Monterrey

    Police in Nuevo Leon state launched an effort this past week to crack down on several small gangs in the Monterrey area that officials believe are connected to the Gulf cartel. In a series of raids, authorities detained more than 500 people as they swept through areas where these gangs are believed to be operating and selling drugs. But the raids did not produce the results that authorities were looking for. For example, 381 people — including many drug addicts — were detained in one raid, but only one pistol, small quantities of drugs and drug paraphernalia were seized. While it would not be surprising to learn gangs in the Monterrey area are connected with the Gulf cartel, there is no evidence these particular organizations did more than sell drugs on the street.
    These raids represent one of the challenges authorities in Mexico face as they battle the country’s drug problem. While drug-dealing gangs like those targeted in Monterrey represent a public safety issue that must be addressed, focusing on them requires diverting people and resources from the mission of hunting down the members of the large cartels that are the heart of the problem.
    [​IMG]


    March 3

    • One person died and several were wounded during a six-hour firefight between security forces and suspected drug gang members in Tijuana, Baja California.
    • Five bodies were discovered in a makeshift grave used by a drug-trafficking group in Chihuahua state.
    • The bodies of two men were found in two separate incidents in Mexico state. One victim had been shot in the head at close range while the other had been shot several times.
    • Ten assailants killed a candidate for local office in a small town in Guerrero state.
    March 4

    • A raid on an alleged Gulf cartel safe-house in Matamoros, Tamaulipas state, resulted in the seizure of seven firearms, 23 fragmentation grenades, nine armored vehicles and body armor.
    • Authorities in Tijuana, Baja California state, discovered the bodies of five people who had been abducted the day before. At least one of the victims was a minor.
    • The body of an unidentified man shot in the head at close range was found along a highway in Hidalgo state.
    March 5

    • The bodies of three kidnapping victims were found in Mazatlan, Sinaloa state. The victims, one of whom was a minor, were abducted from their homes March 3.
    • A man in Tijuana, Baja California state, died after being shot twice in the head while walking.
    • A Durango state police officer died outside his home when he was shot at least 70 times by gunmen traveling in two vehicles.
    • A police commander in Nuevo Leon escaped unharmed from an assassination attempt by three men who pursued him as he left work.
    • A firefight in Torreon, Coahuila state, between military forces and suspected gang members left one gang member dead and another wounded.
    • Gunmen fired on a group of police officers assigned to a congressman’s protective detail in Oaxaca state. Three officers were wounded; the congressman was not in the city at the time of the attack.
    • Police in Tijuana, Baja California state, exchanged gunfire with armed assailants traveling in three vehicles.
    March 6

    • The bodies of three unidentified victims were found outside the office of the attorney general in Oaxaca state.
    March 7

    • Authorities in Tijuana, Baja California state, announced the arrest of three men in possession of nearly 100 firearms, 50,000 rounds of ammunition, 23 grenades, and half a ton of marijuana.
    • Authorities in the port city of Manzanillo, Colima state, seized more than $11 million in $10, $20, $50 and $100 bills in a shipping container aboard a freight ship. The seizure took place after a routine inspection of the ship — which was headed to Panama — revealed irregularities in the container’s paperwork.
    • A police commander in Oaxaca state was shot dead while sitting in a park cleaning his shoes.
    March 8

    • One soldier and six gunmen were reported dead after a firefight in Chihuahua state.
    • Two police officers in Jalisco state died when assailants fired on them with automatic weapons.
    March 9

    • A taxi driver in Matamoros, Tamaulipas state, was shot dead by a group of gunmen traveling in a vehicle.
    #92
  13. Max Dongo

    Max Dongo Coffee Achiever

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    Another reason there is so much crime these days is that the border is hard to cross, and you have a lot of built up pressure of desperate people who can't get to the US and have no money to go anywhere.
    #93
  14. Pelon

    Pelon Dia Por Dia

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    Agreed.
    #94
  15. JimC

    JimC Long timer

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    Here is what I consider a great and honest discussion on the situation is Baja taken from the March 26, 2008 issue of Cycle News. Sorry for the hack job on the article but I don't have a scanner.

    The article makes several great points a couple of which are.
    1) You are far more at risk from riding your motorcycle in Baja then from the Banditos there
    2) The incidence of crime there is probably no higher than it ever has been
    3) The majority of serious crime is limited to a few specific areas in Baja.

    I love Mexico. The few trips I have taken there have all been positive experiences. The people were incredible and the country beautiful and wild. If you are concerned about safety while traveling then you should probably stay home. Any trip away from home carries risk. If you haven't been to Mexico you should try it, you will probably like it. I believe about 90% of the negative posts about the country come from people who have never been there (Tijuana doesn't count).

    Jim in Sacramento

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    #95
  16. thetourist

    thetourist Just passing thru

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    Not trying to start a feud, but found two other sites with similar numbers...about 5.7 per 100,000.

    One site said 1.5 per 100,000 "convictions". Stats can be skewed.

    The big picture is that there are bad people and they can be anywhere. It always pays to be careful when away from home.
    #96
  17. 2 Wheels

    2 Wheels .

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    #97
  18. Pelon

    Pelon Dia Por Dia

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    #98
  19. BajaPablo

    BajaPablo BajaPablo

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    When I organize rides to Mexico I make sure that off-road riders are in small groups of say 7-10 riders. Groups aways stick together and never leave anyone behind on the trail. We are up by 06:00 and on the trail around 07:30. We discourage groups from riding after dark. We have a set place to arrive with reservations. We never camp, ever! In almost 20 years of riding in Baja and mainland Chihuahua, Mexico have never had a problem--thank goodness. When you camp in remote areas you could be subjected to unwelcome "visitors." Even Graham McIntosh in his book, "Into a Desert Place" discusses this issue.
    #99
  20. 805gregg

    805gregg Long timer

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    Crime is spreading south, in Mulege last week a family was hijacked at gunpoint from their running plane just before take off, a women in Todos Santos was beaten with a pipe and hospitalized and a man was robbed with a rifle near the city center in his home under construction. I only mention this because it was unusual for a gringo to be attacked, now it seems they are the targets of choice.