cutting corners...running a straight line...

I prefer to not ride on public roads at levels that call for doing it, but won't claim I never do. If I do, it will only be when, and where it won't be seen by others, and well within lines of sight.

I've seen way too many riders do it wrong to make any excuses for it.

Food for thought...

Most important thing I have done in riding to deal with those issues is riding off road and in the past 25 years going dual sport riding on back dirt/gravel roads and trails.

Learning to ride on loose or extremely rough surfaces along with going over objects and obstacles creates ability to deal with all but vehicles coming over the center. But even then, making quick evasive maneuvers off road and on dirt/gravel helps with most evasive maneuvers ranging from abrupt actions and especially to going off road if necessary and how to deal with that prospect.

It may be as simple as the back wheel stepping out on a bit of gravel/dirt/sand when turning a corner to actually having both wheels move out in a turn due to road conditions. Encountering an obstacle in the road, having a feel for if one can get around the object with a swerve, brake hard to stop, or if it is better to hit said object head on with a yank on the bars and some throttle - like encountering a board in the road for the former or encountering a cut in the pavement two feet wide and four inches deep across the entire roadway.

Those are some of the skills that develop with off road and dual sport riding. Kind of reminds me of what Ken Roberts said about training on an XR100R, if they can do a two wheel drift or perform and control a slide with 8 hp they can do it with 150 hp. If you can do the maneuvers on a 300 lb dual sport off road you can use the skills on the road.



I will say I've not ridden near my limits on pavement since sometime around 1989 and I remember just how intimidating it was doing so. Thirty years later I can still ride hard, but not like that anymore. Too many ways to get hurt. I'd say most I've run is maybe 75% of skills available and not that much very often. Never ride above the skills of those who are with me and, when leading, always looking back to make sure they are still with me. No sense in hurting anyone who will ride with me.

very true. also why I’ve been trying to learn the TT tracks as well as the paved tracks.
there is a tremendous amount of closed course paved and dirt track stuff out there right now that can be done on meager budgets.
I am old so everything I train on is small displacement. 50 ish mph is plenty for me to train on. I don’t heal as fast as I used to.
From the TT dirt wars race a couple years ago at Colin Edward’s Texas Tornado facility near Houston


I was pretty mediocre, (18th out of 30 I think)
But was only the second time for me on dirt, so I have plenty of room for improvement

I'm still hacking around on the dual sport at 67. If my one knee comes around I'd like to get a trials bike in about a year. Go play in small spaces and ride with friends on trials bikes.

I could, but I ask myself, "Why?" It doesn't seem to add anything to my ride, you never know when some squid on an R1 isn't going to come blasting past the other way, lowside, and slide across the centerline in front of you (how, you may ask, do I know this?), and IMHO, it rather misses the point of having a turn there in the first place

Still, I'm not going to tell anyone not to go for it. Have fun, stay safe, and enjoy the ride!

I think there's a big difference between: "I didn't see another vehicle coming" and "there's not another vehicle coming". To me, it's maddening to see riders cutting the corners...regardless of the reason. When there's a mistake, it's likely to be a head on crash.

Just stay on the correct side of the road and with a lane position that doesn't result in parts of the body or motorcycle trespassing over the line.

totally appreciate the knee thing. My full replacement of my left knee has become pretty strong again. Been training really hard with it, both for strength and flexibility. This last season of racing I was able to do 30 minutes of track time again straight (still not much more than that) while keeping all the weight off my arms. Still got to get my core strength back though.

Its also important to remember when someone else is over riding their line of sight, it reduces our effective line of sight too.

I think we need to stay on our side of the line, regardless. But I'd also say that apexing a little on the late side is actually the safest practice on a sporty road, because you don't commit to leaning the bike over until you have the clearest view of the road ahead. On a left turn, that's often going to put you close to the paint, unless you've corrected to avoid something. I don't know what isn't in that picture, but it doesn't look to me like you're doing anything wrong. Screw the armchair quarterbacks.

Spot on. And well said. My take on all of these things -- cutting corners, passing minivans, etc. -- is, "What if someone who rides just as badly as I do comes barrelling down the other lane?" This may not seem very likely, for surely no one rides quite as badly as I do, but it does remain food for thought.

Its comforting to meet another mere mortal in a place populated by world class riders.

Why? For those of us who go by clear line of sight the only one watching is God and our buddies behind us. If anyone else is around we won't be doing so.


The more I read here the more I wonder just how many people understand a clear line of sight. Doesn't seem like it in a lot of cases.

So to help all of you who just don't seem to understand. It means we can see all the way around a curve clearly, to see any other vehicles and such. If there is something in the line of sight, we hold our lane.

I hope that is satisfactory. If I see you I hold my lane, in fact I actually am more conservative because I have no idea if you have any clue about what you are doing.

Being able to see the entire distance needed to avoid an obstacle.

He must be an ex Hog rider as they like to ride on the center line.

Nice to know you understand what it is. So why are you writing about the "reduced line of sight"? They aren't reducing a thing for us, they are the obstacle we intend do see in our line of sight in any conditions. They are when and why we would not only not cross over the yellow, but actually get more cautious, being ready to move over and slow up as needed. They never changed my line of sight, they were in my line of sight and I'm now prepared.

Heck, if I have a clear line of sight and no cars around me I may intentionally drift left of center going around curves on highways slightly straightening out the line I drive. Who cares? No one there... and yes I also consider side roads and driveways in my observing before going. No cars, no people, I do what I want.

Please note I said "effective". The faster an oncoming road user is going, the less of our visible line of sight is useable.

Why not?

My answer basically boils down to civility, which is a hard sell around here. Either way, I don’t know why crossing the line is fun. Easier for cornering, if you need the help, I guess. But it’s not entertaining enough for me to mess up someone else’s day over it.

You don't get it. They are the obstacle, that is what is in the line of sight and need be dealt with. Plus if it is a bike or a car I can still see far beyond them, they don't block the entire horizon. by any means. If they are massive enough to cut down my vision by much, I sure as hell don't need to immediately see behind them I have to deal with them. Like a semi coming around the corner - I will not be anywhere near the center line and I will be ready for whatever may transpire. But I will still have my eye out for what may be behind them in case some jerk decides to pass in the wrong place.

But clearly it is about a clear line of sight when talking about the topic here. Clear - not blocked out.

Exactly.

In other words: If the joy of riding like the OP is demonstrating to oneself (and having photographic proof of) what a super rider one is, then why not make the feats a little bit challenging by performing them within one's own frickin' lane?

After all, the reason roads are as wide as they are is to safely accommodate two four-wheeled vehicles going in opposite directions. What are you proving to yourself or anyone else by 'straightening' curves that are already designed for vehicles that can't lean and are three times the width of your bike to begin with?

JET

This. And give up your legal right of way to boot. Couldn’t have put it better.