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D.I.Y. Cam Chain Replacement

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Dieselboy, Sep 22, 2011.

  1. der-Seppel

    der-Seppel Dominik

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    okay just read through the thread again and found this ...
    now I just have to find out how to reset the engine timing(?) after I have done that ...

    It is horrible when you have to do jobs like this on your own because you don't have the money to get it done by a shop but you don't have the skills that are required. It guess it is time to learn it :)

  2. GourmetTraveller

    GourmetTraveller n00b

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    Sorry to jump in right at the end...I by no means want to hijack this thread so please send me elsewhere if need be.

    I'm looking for opinions from people much more knowledgeable than I am about these Rotax engines.

    I've taken the following recording of my engine.

    https://soundcloud.com/gourmettraveller/f800st-2009-engine

    It's an 09 F800St - 81,000km on the clock.

    I'm concerned about that tapping similar to a sewing machine.

    Does this sound like the noise from the Cam Chain that people are referring to in this thread or is it something else?

    The other track i'm going down is possibly highlighted by JoelWisman.

    JoelWisman described a number of different noises the engines make in the following thread: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=833910&page=2

    There are three main noises.. the second of which is described as

    Noise 2 is caused by incorrect clearances on the HLM big end bearing. This to my knowledge was only present on some early 2009 bikes though I sappose QC could fail and the problem could be introduced again. This was a loud lower end knock that was very detectable on a hot engine with hot oil. I'm sure higher weight oil will quiet it some but it will still explode at some point if this problem is present. On the positive side, when the HLM bearing fails the pieces tend to come out the forward and bottom parts of the engine which is preferred over the upper rear.

    Noise 2 will be louder as oil gets thinner and is detectable as very low in the engine with a stethoscope. This noise is detectable through the full rev range though exhaust noise may drowned it out. The solution is replacement of the HLM bearing before the engine explodes.

    Interested in people's thoughts... Thanks
  3. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    Necessity is the mother of invention. :wink: Good job on taking the bull by the horns and going for it.
  4. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    I think the ST engine is slightly different than a GS engine, mainly the angle of the cylinders on the crankcase, and difference in valve train.

    Your problem stays constant with the engine speed as you rev the engine, sometimes the cam noice will go quiet with some revs.

    In the interest of checking the simple things first, have you checked the valves clearence lately? It sounds more like valve noise to me.
  5. GourmetTraveller

    GourmetTraveller n00b

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    In good news.. this is something that I've checked and there were no issues.

    But it is VERY comforting to hear that the sound goes away at some revs..

    When I'm on the bike I can hear the ticking from 0 ~ 4000RPM but then it will quieten off before coming back around the 5000 mark and continues through the range.

    Maybe this fix is something I should try on my ST?
  6. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    Your problem sounds more like valve noise. I guess I'm not sure what you should check next.

    In my engine, what I suspect is cam chain noise, goes away with a throttle blip to 1500 rpm. We checked it out and quieted it some with the adjuster update. Its not near as regular as your noise.

    Have you tried asking the F800 forum? http://f800riders.org/forum/forum.php
  7. GourmetTraveller

    GourmetTraveller n00b

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    I had the valves done at the last service and they were in spec.

    They also did a compression test which found that there were no leakages and the engine was operating normally.

    The people at f800 pointed me over here for a potential solution. One of the issues is a lack of recordings of people's engines.. There are a handful on you tube but nothing really concrete..

    Sure noise is subjective but it would be great to have an engine noise archive to compare before and after a fix.
  8. MikeMike

    MikeMike Long timer

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    One thing I have learned about being an BMW F model of bike owner is that "worry less, ride more" has never been more applicable.

    These things do weird sht.

    In short, keep doing your regular maintenance. Do an oil and filter change if it needs it. Then put another 5,000kms on it. If the noise gets louder or stranger, investigate, if it doesn't, forget about it and ride the thing.

    These are not the round the world bikes that BMW claims. Maybe the 3rd editions will be, but I doubt it.
  9. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    Okay, I think I have something that works.

    In this little recording I start the F800GS, let it idle, and blip the throttle. What I normally consider cam chain noise is gone within 1-2 seconds after start. Before we changed the adjuster, the noise lasted longer.

    Youtube Video

    David
  10. MikeMike

    MikeMike Long timer

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  11. GourmetTraveller

    GourmetTraveller n00b

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    Thanks for the Video, I wish my bike sounded like yours. But the 1-2 seconds at the beginning sound a lot like the sound I'm experiencing..

    I'll find some time early in the new year to get the parts and try swapping the chain to see what happens.

    regarding those other videos. I've seen those before and Long to have something that sounds vaguely similar to anything in those clips.
  12. MikeMike

    MikeMike Long timer

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    Have your dealer do the measurement. Or do it yourself. It will cost you a $75 gasket, though.:deal
  13. GourmetTraveller

    GourmetTraveller n00b

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    I only had the top off it 2 months ago when they checked the valve clearances... would it really need a new gasket in that time?
  14. MikeMike

    MikeMike Long timer

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    It will need one depending on who put the old one on and who takes the valve cover off.
    It isn't unusual to need a new one every time it is opened, depends on who was and is on the wrench end. You won't know if it was ok to reuse it until you put some miles on the bike and can detect a leak(s).
    Verify that your tensioner is doing what it should be.
    Check the chain wear.
    Check the wear on the chain tensioner blade and the guide rail.
  15. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    I think there is an update on the tensioner. At least we put some new parts in here at 30K miles.

    Isn't the valve cover gasket rubber? There are some updates to the bolt gaskets and stuff when we check my valves and did the tensioner change out.

    Mine was a 2009 F8GS so there might be changes that aren't on other bikes.

    David
  16. MikeMike

    MikeMike Long timer

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    When I bought the "new improved tensioner" I did a measurement test against the old one.
    Exactly the same.
    All Motorrad did was bundle the pieces together instead of making them available separately.

    I have yet to here a first generation F bike that doesn't rattle on startup.
    That doesn't make ticking and whirring sounds.
  17. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    I haven't compared many F8's but would imagine this to be true. Mine got consistantly worse, so during the valve maintenance interval, we did a little digging. The only real changes we made was the new tensioner, the noise was a little less after the maintenance was complete.

    Because the rattle sounds like it takes awhile for the oil pressure to act on the tensioner, I would guess any difference would be oil control changes; clearence in the bore, oil port size change, etc. Probably not measureable without micrometers. Of course all this is just my speculation, nothing official from BMW.

    David
  18. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

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    My 2009 model has never rattled. Until the last oil change, I always ran mineral 10-40 and changed at 4,000 miles.
  19. mischief

    mischief misadventurer

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    Personally, my speculation is that the tensioners wear out, sometimes faster than others. At 59000 miles, I've replaced mine twice so am on my third one. Each time it is because I am hearing more rattle, lasting longer, than I think is proper. It is the same part as on the 650 single but the twin has a longer chain so I think maybe it just isn't quite up to the job, hence the faster wear.
    It's $60 worth of parts and takes 15 minutes so not really a big deal. Certainly worth a try if you are having a worrisome noise

    Christi
  20. MikeMike

    MikeMike Long timer

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    Get a micrometer and measure the pieces. You'll probably find them to be the same old and new. The spring might lose its effectivness over time, but the plunger probably hasn't worn very much if you are doing frequent oil changes.

    I've never, ever gone the 10,000kms between oil changes recommended by BMW. Sure, I might be wasting money, but seeing how good Motorrad are at making money off of riders, I don't trust them. What they pulled off with the parts bundling of the tensioner assembly is indicative of what BMW has become.