D.I.Y. Cam Chain Replacement

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Dieselboy, Sep 22, 2011.

  1. smitty141

    smitty141 Only Pussy's die of natural causes.

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    735
    Location:
    Hooterville Mo.
    My F800gs rattles like a bastard on startup. After reading all 20 pages I thought I would order a new tensioner. Last night I thought I would pull the old one out just to give it a look. I did not bring the motor to TDC, and it was a hard press to get the plug started. After a few attempts I was able to get it installed.

    Now the strange part, after re-installing it the rattle was gone!! Great, but what had changed??

    Well, I could not leave well enough alone... This time I did the TDC trick, and remover the tensioner. looked at it and re-installed.. Guess what, the rattle is back just as before. I did remove it again and gave it a cleaning internally with some contact cleaner. It moved freely I soaked it in oil and primed it. Re-installed it and the rattle is still there.

    My new tensioner will be here this week. I should add the valves are fine, and the bike has 25,000 miles on it.

    Has anyone had this happen??

    Thanks smitty
  2. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    Aug 7, 2008
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    19,079
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    It was broke, you fixed it then you couldn't leave well enough alone and broke it again? :rofl

    What year bike?
  3. smitty141

    smitty141 Only Pussy's die of natural causes.

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    735
    Location:
    Hooterville Mo.
    2010.. I just could not leave it alone.:lol3

    Smitty
  4. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    I'm not positive but my experience is that the old design had a bare aluminum cap and the new is painted black.

    Either way. wait till you get the new one in.
  5. smitty141

    smitty141 Only Pussy's die of natural causes.

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    735
    Location:
    Hooterville Mo.
    Mine has a black cap. After I pulled it and re installed it last night it was like a new bike. I have a good feeling that the new CCT will take care of it. It is puzzling why by just R&R the CCT the rattle would be gone.. Does not make sense...

    I will post up after I install the new one. Should you soak the new one before installing??

    Thanks, Smitty
  6. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    As long as it's not dry you'll be fine. It'll fill pretty quick on start up. Pre-filling it will just make a mess.......
  7. smitty141

    smitty141 Only Pussy's die of natural causes.

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    735
    Location:
    Hooterville Mo.
    Received and installed my new CCT. Still had the "rattle".

    Removed it and submerged it in oil and pumped it till it was hard:evil. Re-installed, after multiple cold starts the rattle is gone. I am going to order a few master links and a new cam chain. At the next valve check, install a new chain.

    Thanks for the info this thread has provided...

    Smitty
  8. TheJoker

    TheJoker Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Oddometer:
    38
    Location:
    Near Oxford, UK
    Thanks for this thread and everyone who's contributed to it. I'm working on a friend's bike and I found this.

    [​IMG]

    Here's a video of the engine turning.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxaEmghc5n0

    It's a 2008 bike with ~52,000 miles on it.

    I'm assuming that the chain has stretched and that it needs replacing. I guess a new tensioner spring would be in order too?

    Has anyone found the master link for sale in Europe?

    Thanks again to everybody! :clap
  9. Indy Unlimited

    Indy Unlimited Long timer

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    Jan 21, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,956
    Location:
    Parker, CO
    not fair to check for slack with oil pressure not up.
    we have an oil pressure controlled cam chain tensioner.
    A manual one would work better but I put a new oil tensioner in with a new cam chain every 25,000 miles.
  10. TheJoker

    TheJoker Adventurer

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    Mar 17, 2009
    Oddometer:
    38
    Location:
    Near Oxford, UK
    Previous posts suggest the cam is tensioned by the spring and dampened by the oil.
  11. JRWooden

    JRWooden Homeless motorcycle vagabond ... and ... loving it

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    That's my question too....
    does oil actually add additional "tension" ... or is it "just" for damping....

    Indy ... since you probably have an old unit laying around ...
    would you mind pushing it thru a bandsaw and seeing how it's laid out inside? :evil
  12. Indy Unlimited

    Indy Unlimited Long timer

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    I trashed my old ones but I can tell you the spring is weak and without oil pressure it wont have the strength to tension the timing chain.

    [​IMG]
  13. JRWooden

    JRWooden Homeless motorcycle vagabond ... and ... loving it

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Besides the "bic" spring (which I think is internal to the tensioner assembly?) there is a 2nd spring at least on my 2009 design that appears to apply pressure between the "plug" in the back of the tensioner cavity and the outside cylinder of the tensioner assembly...

    The key dimensions of the new spring:
    Free length: ~13.3mm
    Spring Diameter: ~14.2mm
    Wire diameter: ~1.6mm


    Here is a picture of my "new" spring (top) and old spring bottom...
    not sure if the old spring took a compression set, or if the new spring is a revised design to give more spring pressure...

    but the OD of this spring is roungly equal to the ID of the bore that the tensioner assembly fits into and is at the back between the "plug" and the tensioner....




    [​IMG]
  14. TheJoker

    TheJoker Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Oddometer:
    38
    Location:
    Near Oxford, UK
    If there's anyone in UK or Europe that's going to attempt the split-link method, I've just located the split link at Busters.

    This was the original link to the split link (master link).
    http://www.z1enterprises.com/ItemDetails.aspx?item=KL12-0353-1
    It is part number 82RH2015
    Which can be found at Busters (no affiliation)
    http://spares.busters-accessories.c...0000/vehicle/honda-pc-800:68431/article/96930
    and probably many other retailers too.

    I've also ordered a Draper 31318 Chain breaker splitter from eBay, just like this one.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-31318-Expert-Splitter-Riveter/dp/B004L6DUV0

    The parts I'm going to order from BMW are:

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...K72-BMW-F_800_GS_08_0219,0229_&diagId=11_4004

    10 - sliding piece 11317689494
    11 - timing chain 11317690475
    12 - chain tensioner 11317690493
    18 - guide rail 11318531493
    19 - set of tensioners 11318531009

    And the clutch gasket
    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...K72-BMW-F_800_GS_08_0219,0229_&diagId=11_3997
    01GASKET LEFT 111117707906

    I think that should cover it. Hope that's of some use to somebody.

    And finally. I asked a BMW technician today and he said that the cam chain should not be as slack as it shows in the video. Plenty of big eyes watching the video.
  15. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    Thanks, nice to have those notes.
  16. sarathmenon

    sarathmenon Armchair Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,540
    Location:
    SFO Bay Area
    It's not like anyone needs to see proof of another stretched cam chain, but here is mine during a valve inspection today:

    [​IMG]

    Since I already have it open, and I am not confident it will last another 10k miles till the next valve inspection, I figured now will be a good time to replace it. This is at 36k miles, but I guess the chain was loose since the last 6k miles. The local dealer did not have the chain in stock, so I'll get one only on Tuesday. I am not eager to split the case to replace it, and I already have a master link on hand, so the chadam's method looks very appealing right now. Will the normal drive chain breaker work for the timing chain, or does this need a specialty breaker? This chain looks a lot beefier, so I suspect this might require another one. Did you folks who have done the master link method have to grind a link to break it? The space is already tight around there, and I suck at working in tight spaces.

    This is my daily driver, and it's already frustrating after a long day to have to wait for parts. I don't want to go through this all over again on Tuesday and know that I am missing something at the last minute. Man, between this and the alternator dying, the long term maintenance costs suck. i should stick to Honda next time :hide
  17. sarathmenon

    sarathmenon Armchair Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,540
    Location:
    SFO Bay Area
    Anyone? I am taking a day off to get back to this on Wednesday, it would suck to know 2 hours into the job that I need a new chain breaker. Most of the links posted earlier on are outdated or point to stock photos.

    Also, a noobish question since I have never been into this part of the bike before - how I get the old chain out? After attaching both chains, should I maintain tension in the chain and feed it through making sure that the inlet and exhaust camshafts rotate along with the crankshaft side sprocket without skipping timing? I am wondering if there might be an easier way by locking at tdc and slide the chain out disturbing that sprocket. That would be too easy if it was possible, I am guessing that there is not enough clearance down there to make it possible.
  18. Bayner

    Bayner Long timer

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    Mar 27, 2008
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    2,399
    Location:
    Penticton, BC, Canada
    Not enough clearance on the crank to slide it on if I remember correctly. Been a while since I did it. I suspect I had the sprockets off and the cams loose to make it easier, also this allows all the valves to close so you have no interference issues when rotating the crank (with the bike in gear using the back wheel to rotate it). The new chain will feed through when tied to the end of the old one. I had a tool to break the chain but I don't think I used it to install the new link. I remember peening over the pins by hand.
  19. sarathmenon

    sarathmenon Armchair Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,540
    Location:
    SFO Bay Area
    Thanks Bayner. I guess my chain breaker should work after all. I'll report back on wednesday how it goes, assuming my chain arrives by then.
  20. chinchinete

    chinchinete Learning to fly

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Oddometer:
    62
    Location:
    Tropics
    IMG_4663.JPG
    Hi there!!
    Sarathmenon: How did it go? I am checking valves right now and probably let things there for another 10k kmts and then I'll tackle that job.

    In the process I discovered that when my bike's TDC notch is locked, the camshaft (EX/IN) do not align to each other, that is, when the EX is parallel with the sealing face, the IN is some degrees off. This is getting me worried since the manual states that they must align. What do you guys suggest?