D3O, should we avoid it?

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by cyclopathic, Jul 26, 2017.

  1. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    on another thread I mentioned Bohn armor. bur when I looked at their site again all the hard armor is gone.

    Johnson leathers uses an armor they call ForceFeild. Given the level of quality they hit it is worth considering. Someplace like klim has nothing on them.

    http://www.johnsonleather.com/armor_main.htm

    I agree completely with the unicorn comments.
    #41
  2. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    Forcefield is a decent sized british company who makes a wide variety of after market replacement, and armored layers. They're probably the single best armor mfr around (although Knox is pretty damn good too).

    Odd how many top armor companies are in the UK.
    #42
  3. Valentino

    Valentino Been here awhile

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    Although I've ended up with more D30 now, I've generally used Forcefield in the past and still use a Forcefield back insert in one of my jackets. Forcefield is known for making excellent armour. E.g. Forcefield's Pro Sub 4K back protector absorbs more force than any other back protector.

    :thumb Forcefield makes all manner of body armour (including Pro Lite K Level 2 back protector upgrades that fit jackets from Dainese, Alpinestars, etc). It's good stuff!

    It must be our heritage as knights of the realm :D
    #43
  4. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    This may have to do with US tort law. liability insurance is costly here and is a good part of what is paid for PPE.
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  5. Peanut_Buttery

    Peanut_Buttery Been here awhile

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    As well as Forcefield and Knox, isn’t D30 is British too?
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  6. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    Yup! hence my comment. Many of the big armor companies have their start from equestrian stuff, which I imagine is much more popular there.
    #46
  7. ThrillSeeka

    ThrillSeeka Been here awhile

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    That's the material that Forcefield still uses in their harness gear. For replacement armor, Forcefield has moved to a whole-different game of viscoelastic foam that achieves Level 2 in all conditions. The stuff wraps around the joints like no other.

    As for Bohn Armor, stay tuned.

    Yes.

    FF, Knox and D3O: British.
    SAS-TEC: German.
    Rev'It: Dutch (their Seeflex limb armor is CE Level 2 T+/T- but implements PVC instead of viscoelastic PU like SAS-TEC et al)

    All of these companies above make their own armor.
    #47
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  8. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    Kinda, they also repackage others (the revit flexi honeycomb stuff is sastec as far as I can tell).

    I personally find Knox Microlock to be significantly softer and more comfortable then Forcefield Isolator. The latter is almost as stiff as sastec when cold, and fairly small.
    #48
  9. ThrillSeeka

    ThrillSeeka Been here awhile

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    If by "flexi honeycomb stuff", you're referring to the Seeflex armor from Rev'It, that isn't SAS-TEC. Seeflex is PVC made and non viscoelastic. SAS-TEC only works with PU materials for the most part. SAS-TEC does white-label armor in PU for other brands; Seeflex armor is a completely different material and shape.

    To SAS-TEC's credit (regarding armor softness), their newer CE Level 2 limb armor is softer in ambient temperature than previous years. Also improved in cold temperatures.

    The FF Isolator CE2 is extremely pliable; not sure where you're getting that the Isolator range of armor is as stiff as SAS-TEC when cold (unless it was worded as you referring to FF Isolator under cold conditions being as stiff as SAS-TEC?). I'm referring to the CE2 Isolator, not the CE1 version (not same pliability).
    #49
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  10. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    A number of brands use an identical except for color extremely thin ce1 honeycomb looking armor, branded various ways, which as far as I can tell is a sastec product. Revit uses it in some of their jeans and their urban line. See flex itself is by far the heaviest ce2 armor.

    I’ve worn Isolator 2 for 20k miles in temps all over the place. It’s softer then the latest sastec (like bmws np2 formulation) in the heat, but quite stiff when cold. Microlock always has more give to it, making it more comfortable at all temps for knees for instance.
    #50
  11. Valentino

    Valentino Been here awhile

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    :thumb Rukka D30 XTR armour is also soft in cold temperatures, but then it's some of the only D30 armour that's Level 2 in cold conditions as well as ambient. It's what I use in my U

    The nice thing about Rukka D30 XTR is that the armour covers a large surface area. I haven't seen anything that's larger, but I hear that Stadler clothing has armour covering a big surface area too.

    I don't know about Knox and D30, but Forcefield started in the shoe industry! Though I believe we have plenty of equestrian stuff in the UK, and some of the airbag companies make both motorcycle and equestrian airbag vests.
    #51
  12. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    The BMW NP2 protectors, and the new custom D3O Aero in the latest badlands are also absolutely massive.
    #52
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  13. john.thorp

    john.thorp Titan of Industry Supporter

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    @sprouty115, this is a hundred years ago but can you say more about the feel on impact? I haven't seen much reporting on this but I have insoles in a pair of shoes out of a very similar material (flexible but stiffens on impact) and oh my god is it stiff.

    I hate that bulky old school armor and I like the idea of gear that's lighter and fits better. And I don't do MX, but I got down in my gear once or twice a year and in my kind of crashes I basically feel nothing. Would hate to give that up. And my suspicion is that these new materials are more about comfort (not necessarily a bad thing for the right rider) than function.

    Thanks in advance.
    #53
  14. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    Why would you ever want D3O insoles? A material that is designed to stiffen across the board on impact sounds dreadful to walk in.

    Most MX gear is now a blend of lightweight PU foams with hard-shells for penetration protection.

    D3O's newer formulations are now temp stable across the range, and don't go stiff in the cold the way they used too. Much more pliable, and the newer lattice structures don't seem as prone to pressure points/tearing.
    #54
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  15. sprouty115

    sprouty115 Long timer Supporter

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    Bearing in mind this simply my opinion - I disliked D3O because when I compared it to the Aerostich armor (definitely bigger and bulkier) it felt so much worse on impact.

    Basically with the Aerostich armor I could drop from standing onto my knees and it was fine. Doing the same thing wearing my Rukka Armas pants with D3O sent a shock into my knees.

    It was also stiff when cold, and there are enough reports of cracking that I didn't trust it.

    Maybe it's better now, but all of my gear with D3O is long gone.
    #55
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  16. Peanut_Buttery

    Peanut_Buttery Been here awhile

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    While I have a variety of armor, most of it is D30. However, I have been picky: it's the stuff that's both Level 2 and certified T- (stable in cold temperatures). Rukka XTR (made of D30) is my favorite because of its excellent coverage. It's comfy too.

    And the latest D30 that's Level 2 comes out well in MotoCAP tests. Is it the most impact-resistant armor that MotoCAP has tested?

    But why would you use D30 for insoles? Vibration damping, apparently: https://www.mcgearhub.com/motorcycle-boots/d3o-insoles-review-comfort-performance-footwear/
    #56
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  17. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    The Transit armor is SAS-tech if that makes you feel any better, I bet the sizes line up with the other Aerostich offerings.

    I have D30 (latest generation) in both my own and my wife's rukka's without compliant (though I don't wear the rukka in the cold really) the seersoft/SAS-tech is a little nice we have this in both my transit and her sand 2
    #57
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  18. Peanut_Buttery

    Peanut_Buttery Been here awhile

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    #58
  19. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    They're showing up in OEM stuff. Prioritizing lightness/thinness for L1. Fox has them in some MTB focused applications for instance.
    #59