Dakar Improved - Time for a big adv bike class again?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by HeatedCheese, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. HeatedCheese

    HeatedCheese n00b

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    Originally it was cited that cost concerns were the reason for decreasing displacement in Dakar, and it seems understandable. A multitude of manufacturers made 450's of some sort, and with the move to tighter trails and roads this size of bike has ultimately proved successful.

    However, in the interest of improving competition and interest I think its time to bring big bikes back in a separate class. Never before have there been so many dirt worthy machines of large displacement. A production based class full of AT's, 1090 adventures (or 790's!), BMW f800's, Triumph Tiger's, and T700's would be exceptionally more relevant to the typical rider that follows these races. Not to mention, if production rules were implemented (stock frame, engine cases, and suspension tubes/shock bodies like AMA pro mx) this would be a huge driver for driving the off road capabilities of large adv bikes that are monsters both on and off road without breaking the bank.

    Obviously, the fastest pro's would still be on their 450 rally weapons, but as a support class, why not?
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  2. Goss

    Goss LC8 Adventurer

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    I believe it was due to the death of Fabrizio Meoni that the final decision was made to drop the max engine size down to 450cc. The big bikes had top speeds that were too dangerous in the officials eyes.

    Now with 450 rally bikes making near the same HP as 690cc I do not see that the Dakar management will ever allow 1000cc back in that race.
    #2
  3. redneckK20

    redneckK20 Been here awhile

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    It'd be wild to see open class ADV bikes blasting 120+ mph in smooth dirt, but also incredibly dangerous.
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  4. Goss

    Goss LC8 Adventurer

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    I failed to mention that Meoni was on the KTM 950 Rally when his accident happened. Riders with less ability riding a higher HP and heavier bike would seemingly be a recipe for trouble I think.
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  5. HeatedCheese

    HeatedCheese n00b

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    Ah makes sense. I remember the accident but never put the two together I guess. Oh well, I'll keep on dreaming anyways!
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  6. Goss

    Goss LC8 Adventurer

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    If you look in the Racing section here there seems to be a large number rallys around the world that do allow the big bikes. Our own Lyndon Poskitt has competed in most of them on his 700+cc KTM RFR.
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  7. NorthIdaho800gsa

    NorthIdaho800gsa Bad influence

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    Ahhh, yes.....the nanny state. even though you know the risks involved, somebody else needs to intervene on your behalf. swell. the nanny state has been the boon of racing everywhere and across the board.
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  8. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    The 450s are already going 180km/h ~110mph.
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  9. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Love those blue pipes Supporter

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    So which "State" do you think is nannying Dakar competitors? The Dakar organizers are free to make whatever rules they like - and if you wanted to start your own off-road race, you could do likewise.
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  10. SRG

    SRG Long timer

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    The vast and continual improvements in the safety of motorsports allow the sport to continue. Without the constant pressure to improve safety, motorsports would have gone the way of chariot races long ago. Thanks nannies (like Sir Jackie Stewart).
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  11. bentlink

    bentlink Been here awhile

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    Having raced in stage rallies (four wheels) and helped with organizing them also, a MAJOR consideration is liability and its flip-side, insurance. If you are the event organizer, and your are working with governments -- which typically own the all the roads (public paved or forestry) -- there are lots of risks you try to minimize. Speed caps are one of them -- and engine displacement or fuel/air restrictors -- help to do this. There is evidence (and common sense :) too that as speeds increase things "get real." As a competitor in Targa Tasmania, Targa NZ and others, it is still intensely fun despite there being a top speed of 200km/h -- and you are only there for a few seconds on a straight... the best rally roads are twisty anyway. Back to Dakar... the rules are the organizers way to control risk -- and bad PR is part of that risk (eg spectators or competitors dying).
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  12. Salzig

    Salzig Long timer

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    When Meoni died in 2005, he was on an LC4 bike and twin cylinder bikes where already been banned.
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  13. Big Tall Bastard

    Big Tall Bastard Voice of Reason

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    This wasn't really a case of Nanny state is was a case of all the guys capable of riding them were dead or grateful to not have to ride them anymore. With a full tank of gas at the beginning of the stages the bikes were really heavy but still fast. Shit could get out of hand really fast. Peterhansel wept when he got off the big bikes for the last time relieved he would never have to ride one again.
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  14. NorthIdaho800gsa

    NorthIdaho800gsa Bad influence

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    Everybody has a choice. if you don't like the rules, dont ride. nobody HAS to ride this event as you suggest., they choose to. if it is beyond somebody's comfort level, don't do it. when folks watch racing, they to it for a reason...to watch the best compete. if that means watching 10 dudes do it....so be it. I would rather watch and support 10 capable guys then 100 mediocre guys.
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  15. Zuber

    Zuber Zoob Supporter

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    The Dakar organizer's are French, right?
    That's why they were intimidated to leave Africa by terrorists.
    That's why the 450 restriction was put in place too late in S. America. Many competitors had already shipped their 690's. When KTM threatened to pull ALL of its support they let it slide for one more year.

    I say, back to Africa, Big bikes and fully armed. Winner fights to the finish!
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  16. neanderthal

    neanderthal globeriding wannabe

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    This is a dumb take.
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  17. Zuber

    Zuber Zoob Supporter

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    Meant for humor only.
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  18. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad Former World's Foremost Authority Supporter

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    The ASO has been limiting different classes for some time. Speed limits on the big T-4 trucks are a prime example. There are already more than enough classes in the event, an additional big bike class will add nothing to the event.

    "In the interest in improving competition......" If you can be competitive on a big bike you can be competitive on a 450. Being first in a class of 10 riders is not nearly as competitive as being first in a class of 50 riders. There is already little coverage of the "lesser/smaller classes, you would most likely not see much to allow you to really follow what is happening.

    The race will never go back to Africa, there is too much money to be made by the ASO in South America, or maybe you haven't noticed the difference in the size of the spectator crowds?
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  19. neanderthal

    neanderthal globeriding wannabe

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    Well, it's not funny, and it's still dumb.
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  20. neanderthal

    neanderthal globeriding wannabe

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    The spectators just stand at the side of the road. They don't pay to be there. There is no relationship between the Dakar spectators and their profit.
    #20