Dear Motoport:

Discussion in 'Vendors' started by motorradfahrer, Jul 26, 2006.

  1. Wayne at Motoport

    Wayne at Motoport Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Oddometer:
    190
    How can you make a claim about the FIM? You obviously know nothing about it. I can write pages of what our company had to go through to be the first synthetic, non leather, Kevlar One Piece race suit to pass the FIM requirements for World Championship Road Racing.

    The AMA in this country refused to use any of the FIM Testing to approve the our suit for use in the USA. Yet World Championship racers racing AMA/FIM Sanctioned events here in the USA could wear our suits. It took 4 years for the AMA to approve our Kevlar one and two piece race suits. They allowed some racers to use our gear. After many crashes, observing the protective qualities it was approved.

    WERRA would not use the FIM or the AMA approval for use. WERRA used the same method as AMA. They found the riders that crashed more than anyone else. After many crashes, WERRA responded that our suit held up better than leather.

    Above you imply about race organizations: "Thats a political statement, more than anything of value and doesn't tell us anything". My 3 paragraphs above tell more about the protective qualities of gear than pages of dribble you write here about CE and Cambridge etc... Do you feel your mistatements help anyone? What point are you trying to make?
    #61
  2. ikonoklass

    ikonoklass Kountersteering Krew

    Joined:
    May 5, 2002
    Oddometer:
    2,635
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    This stuff is BAD ASS! I got the Air Mesh jacket and Ultra II Kevlar Pant. Everything fits great and I can't wait to ride in it on Sunday. It looks phenomenal ... I'll open a Smugmug account and post some pix as soon as I can ... Wayne, I hope you keep all your customers' measurements, because I might spring for Air Mesh pants come next summer. Thanks for a great product! :clap
    #62
  3. Happycamper

    Happycamper Have bikes, will travel

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2003
    Oddometer:
    746
    Location:
    Boston

    The Air Mesh Pants rock!!! Go for them next year - but get your order in early or you'll have to wait out some of the hot weather (I wish I had ordered mine a few weeks earlier).
    #63
  4. Wayne at Motoport

    Wayne at Motoport Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Oddometer:
    190
    (Again I've shown you the facts. By your statements, the thousands of evaluations riders have made concerning our gear in both cold and hot weather, are also exagerating! How can this be? If you have not experienced wearing our gear, you are not in a positon to claim I exagerate.)
    #64
  5. ikonoklass

    ikonoklass Kountersteering Krew

    Joined:
    May 5, 2002
    Oddometer:
    2,635
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I will .... I'll get my order in in February ... it'll make winter that much more bearable!
    #65
  6. ON_the_DL

    ON_the_DL My safety's Harvard

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Oddometer:
    200
    <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Well, I guess ldbandit76 decided he had no way of substantiating any of his critisisms and decided to vacate this thread. Which is a good thing because I don't want <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Wayne</st1:place></st1:City> waisting his time trying to prove a negative so 2 count them 2 people can justify thier outragous requirements.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I mean really, demanding scientific data and lab certified tests to prove one product is better than another. I stand by my request for ldbandit76 or license2ill to provide another manufacturers website that provides side by side comparisons with other vendors...this info does not exist. Furthermore, expecting an AMERICAN manufacturer to comply with an EU standard is rediculous. The CE standard is generally aggreed upon to be a good rating of a products safety and protection qualities but it is an EU standard and while useful for comparison can never be a requirement for US companies. That is like requiring BMW helmets to have Snell aproval. Now, at least you can compair the CE aproval process to the Snell process and decide for yourself. Both tests are different and niether can prove one helmet is better than another. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Wayne</st1:place></st1:City> has provided all the data you need to make an informed decision. The abrasion test is very detailed and so is the tear resistance test. If you disagree with the results please express your disagreement in the form of a factual relavent comparison. Simply observing that ONE European manufacturer uses a propriatary fabric that is CE certified is not a valid comparison. This Halversson fabric is made of 'Polyester Terry Cloth'. Now I don't know about you but I would rather wear an Arimid fiber like Kevlar than a garment made of Polyester. Does that 'prove' that one is better than the other? No, but you can at least make an educated decision based on some factual data provided by each manufacturer. This is more than I can say about 99.9% of all other motorcycle gear manufactures. Try to glean any data from thier websites. As I stated before all you will find are fancy names for fabrics of unknown origin. Buy the Motoport gear, test it out if you don't like it send it back it's that simple. If you are impartial and you put Motoport Kevlar gear side by side with any major vendor there is no way you could say Motoport is less protective. You may like the other product more for various reasons but not because it provides more protection.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Regarding the armor testing. License2ill you are guilty of the old saying 'statistics never lie'. The fact that you claim the test is inadequate does not actually 'prove' that the armor is in fact substandard. There is no actual evidence to prove that. Simply calling the test 'pathetic' which you might be right about does not infer proof that the product is 'pathetic' as you are clearly implying. Without actual side by side apples to apples testing you can claim all you want but it won't standup under scrutiny. I do however tend to agree that <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Wayne</st1:place></st1:City> might want to reconsider making blanket statements that Motoport is the 'best protection on the planet'. I have no doubt that <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Wayne</st1:place></st1:City> believes this to be true but it is rather hard to quantify. That being said I still think it's true. Just provide the data and the testimonials....if that's not enough for you then buy something else if you think it's better.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    The going from 20F to 120F claim is obviously subjective. But for those of you who want to take that statement literally then go ahead. It is obvious that you have never actually worn any of the Motoport products that you are so ready bash. If you had worn them you have no doubt that the Air Mesh Kevlar fabric is without a doubt BEST VENTILATED product available bar none, while still providing outstanding protection at the same time. If you had actually tested the product you would know this and you would not be foolishly trying to dispute this fact. It's funny but not one person has suggested an alternative product that provides superior venting with the same level of protection. That being said, if it's 120F you are going to be freaking hot no matter what you wear. I can only speak from my experience at 112F. For several hours we rode at this temperature. I was pretty hot but my torso was not sweating because of the venting. My feet and my rear-end/crotch were pretty hot because those areas don't really get enough air flow to cool as well. My buddy however, wearing a full Aerostich wanted to go back toward the coast after less than 1 hour. As for riding at 20F I can't say. I for one will not ride in temps that may result in icing, call me crazy. But I have tested in the high 30's. For me at those temps I needed long underpants and a heated jacket but I was fine. Then when it warmed up after work I can ride home in the 70's fully vented.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I know I am going on and on here but it just burns me up when people who have never even ride tested Motoport or for that matter probably never even seen one up close can try to trash them. I would not sit here and try to trash Rukka or Halversson because I've never even seen one in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">USA</st1:place></st1:country-region>. I can't emphasize enough how much I like my Air Mesh Kevlar kit. If you are skeptical ask Wayne/Motoport for some fabric samples and test them out for yourself don't come on this forum and spout a bunch of numbers and tests that have never been applied to this product. I'm sure <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Wayne</st1:place></st1:City> would send you a sample of the Tri-Armor if you want to test that too. If for some reason you don't like the armor buy a set of your precious CE approved armor and throw it in there....at least you would still have all the benefits of the Air Mesh Kevlar. Take notice of how the Tri-Armor is perforated to compliment the venting characteristics of the Mesh jacket as you are swapping them out though....as if anyone actually would.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Rant over: Just look at the 100% satisfaction guarantee. Not many motorcycle apparel manufacturers will stand behind their products to that degree. How plainly can it be stated, try it you WILL like it and if for some reason you don't then send it back. For you naysayers who keep holding out for something better go ahead. That will just give Wayne more time to fill the orders of people who rely on common sense and real world experience not just on some standards body who have no actual experience and passion for motorcycle safety like Wayne Boyer!!!<o:p></o:p>
    - Bruce<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    #66
  7. license2ill

    license2ill Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Oddometer:
    715
    Haha...the logic and lack of information and reading comprehension is not really laughable, it's appalling. I've gone to lengths in many threads, each and every one of them I have posted on here sharing in this sort of info you seek, and have gained a considerable nose for smelling bullshit, and understanding real information as it is presented. I gave extremely valid reasons, and it's obvious that Wayne has driven himself into a circle of confusion, and can;t substantiate any of his claims, anor make heads or tails of straight-forward info from other sources and well known info regarding inernational standards for motorcyclist PPE, despite claiming to be used internationally for proefessional riders. It is a requirement for professional riders gear to be CE-approved in Europe, so he should very well understand those tests, and very simple ideas proposed by such garment testing. He has made it compeletely obvious that he doesn;t and has refusede to cite or qualify any info on his iste or here, and all of it goes against any other info surrounding the verifiable and well-known data outside of the US, where he actually sources these materials. It;s rididculous for the arguments to lay on this level, and be dragged around by the nose with circles of poor info, purposeful confusion, and conitnue to beg for more. His protectors aren't Ce approved and he has prresented no similar info, only a name brand of the device he said was used to measure units he does not understand, and tests he does not understand. I made my point, that is why, in speaking for mysef, that I didn;t post any more in this thread. It shouldn;t have been neccessary to show you what you are dealing with when asking about Motoport, it was obvious from the start with ldbandits posts, and the answers he got to them. I think ldbandit figured it was a lost cause, and I agreed, until it was obvious that important facts weren't sinking in with more posters. It's a shame that after that, it continues to a point of mind-boggling ingorance of those issues. Keep reading, I can't spoonfeed obvious reason to everyone here, and my intent isn't to show anyone up, it's to hear about real solutions, and provide proper criticism, to which Motoport has yet to overcome in terms of quality info. There's no doubt on this end that what I have questioned has yet to be answered with real info reagrading it that isn't circular, off-base, and clearly not accurate or uneducated. Lots of claims coming from Motoport that are still very unsubstantiated, and I;ve provided solid reasons for it, to which the replies bear-out even moreso on more levels. The info is clear, all except for Motoport's replies, which follow no accurate path of understanding.
    #67
  8. ON_the_DL

    ON_the_DL My safety's Harvard

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Oddometer:
    200
    Dear <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Mr</st1:City> <st1:State w:st="on">Ill</st1:State></st1:place>, <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    The fact that you have resorted to blatant name calling and slander does not do much to bolster your claim of being a logical and rational source of unbiased information. I applaud you for having such a vast understanding of the Cambridge Standard but you fail to recognize that this standard does not and never will apply to garments manufactured in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">United States</st1:place></st1:country-region>. Regardless of what tests Motoport use or do not use your argument is completely irrelevant in this context and no amount of cursing will change that. I applaud you again for finally providing a link with a list of garment manufactures that are CE approved. There was a grand total of 2 yes two textile garment manufactures listed and it is not clear weather the entire garment is approved or just the armor. Not that it matters because this thread was started to discuss a garment made by a <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">US</st1:country-region></st1:place> company.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    In regards to reading comprehension which you seem to use selectively at best:<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    1) Let's assume for a minute that you are right and Mr. Boyer does not have such vast understanding of these standards and tests you cling to so tightly. You have still NOT provided to us with any factual data (or even someone’s personal testimony) that Motoport's products are inferior in ANY way whatsoever. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    2) You have not provided any evidence that your 'holy grail' garment composed of Polyester is superior to a product composed of Kevlar. Perhaps you are right put can you PROVE it beyond a doubt? Until then I'm sticking with Aramid Kevlar. You know, the bulletproof fire resistant stuff.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    3) So Motoport Tri-Armor is not CE approved (which is still irrelevant) does that make the armor less effective than armor sold in the EU that is CE approved? NO it does not. You might be right in your insinuation but it is deceptive of you to imply that it has been proven. PROVE it or stop guessing and insinuating. Your vast knowledge of standards is not proof of anything.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    4) Please provide a list of other manufactures that provide ANY information about abrasion testing and tear resistance. While you are at it provide some names of owners of these companies who are willing to come on this board and submit themselves to your level of scrutiny. I won't hold my breath. Do you have any evidence to dispute Motoports abrasion and tear resistance tests? I didn't think so. Can you prove that these tests are not valid?<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    5) Please provide us with an accounting of the extensive field tests that you have performed on Motoport gear that concludes the gear is substandard or performs poorly. Not all of us want to rely solely one some test performed in a lab you know.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    6) Please provide some verifiable testimony from Motoport customers that can support all your rather blatant insinuations that the gear is substandard. I for one looked for such testimony prior to my purchase because I value the actual opinion of experienced riders more than just a standards body. None was to be found. So based on all the positive testimony and the 100% satisfaction guarantee I made my purchase. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I have conceded previously that perhaps some of the claims on the Motoport website are a bit over the top. Many of the tests do support the claims in regards to abrasion and tear resistance. I tend to have the opinion that no manufacturer of any product should claim to have the best product in its class, which is just marketing 101. But that fact that you and Mr. Bandit are skeptical of these claims is NOT proof that they are false. You are certainly entitled to be skeptical. But to call someone an out and out liar is ridiculous. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Wayne</st1:place></st1:City> is not lying. He believes his products are the best and he believes his experience and testing support his claims. For you to call him a LIAR without a shred of evidence to dispute the actual merits of the product is disingenuous at best. So please come back when you have actually seen and tried a Motport Jacket and can provide us with some PROOF not just your obviously disgruntled personal opinions.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Regards,<o:p></o:p>
    Bruce<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    #68
  9. Wayne at Motoport

    Wayne at Motoport Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Oddometer:
    190
    (I'm getting tired of responding to the above crap. Each thread you write gets worse. I'm sure the readers will voice an opinion. Lets see what is said.)

    Here you go again slamming me, my company, our testing, our products. Who in the hell are you? What is your background? I've asked this in the past. Why don't you reply? This is my background:
    Raced motorcycles in the USA and all over the world for 20 years at a professional level. The entire time as a sponsored racer.
    World Manager for Carrera. (Optyl Corporation) Responsible for developing goggles and related products. Hiring racers, designing adds etc.. (22 years)
    Manager for Jofa. Protective armor for motorcycle racers. (Volvo) Sponsoring racers, adds, etc.. (4 years)
    Partnered with O'neal USA sponsoring racers. (3 years)
    Started and ran M. Robert in North America. An Italian Motorcycle apparel company. (7 years)
    Raced and worked with US Suzuki Motor Corporation as a Technician, Chief Racing School Instructor. (8 years)
    Started Motoport/Cycleport in North America in 1988 and run the company today. I can write far more, the above applies to motorcycle apparel experience.

    Here is the main point. Please show me any other motorcycle apparel that even comes close to ours in: protection/versatility/value/guarantee/quality/lifespan.

    Awaiting your reply,
    #69
  10. Odysseus

    Odysseus Stoic Philosopher

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,161
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    dude you need to make paragraph breaks, and take a breath once in a while.

    Its simple, if you don't like Motoports products don't buy them. I have an Ultra II Air Mesh Kevlar jacket and an Air Mesh Kevlar pant on order right now, and I'm sure I will be delighted with the quality and workmanship of the garments. And if there is a problem I'm equally confident that Wayne and company will do what ever it takes to fix it.

    Cheers!
    #70
  11. ikonoklass

    ikonoklass Kountersteering Krew

    Joined:
    May 5, 2002
    Oddometer:
    2,635
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    You will. I got mine about three weeks ago. If I put my Darien on after wearing my Motoport jacket, it feels like I'm wearing a T-shirt.
    #71
  12. RichardU

    RichardU Let's Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2004
    Oddometer:
    933
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    Wayne: My opinion is, please stop waiting for his reply. I hate to see you spend your time on this. Plenty of people, including myself, will vouch for your products and your service.
    #72
  13. BikePilot

    BikePilot Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Oddometer:
    11,951
    Location:
    Golden CO
    Hey Wayne, I've got about 20k miles (and no crashes thankfully) in my GPII suite and like it very much, Thanks, I'm a happy customer and will be buying a mesh suite whenever I have the $$!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Now for my attempt at constructive criticism:)<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    A little about me:<o:p></o:p>
    My street riding is almost all for personal transportation. I only drive a cage when I have to carry something large/heavy, otherwise I'm on the bike. I usually average over 20k miles a year on the street. I ride a TL1000S because its fun, but still sorta practical although the bike really doesn't matter much imho, I'd be happy riding anything with two wheels I think. I've been riding for 12 years and do lots of off road stuff for fun (MX and enduros). <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    So, here is some feedback from someone who owns and uses your stuff every day in a commuter context. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    On Armor: I have no way to evaluate how well it will protect, but it sure isn't very form fitting. Now please realize I don't know much about building motorcycle gear, but other brands use armor that is somewhat shaped like the part of the body it is intended to cover rather than flat. Its my personal opinion that your gear would be even better with similar armor. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I also had another idea, possibly goofy, but here goes. Rather than offer an inner rain liner and insulation how about do an external water and wind proof cover that attaches to the Kevlar jackets? Here's my reasoning....For winter use (cold and wet) I don't care for the inner liner approach very much. It seems to me that there are 3 problems with it. First, by putting the wind/water barrier behind the Kevlar material you give up a lot of potential insulation and put the cold stuff closer to the riders body. Second, the Kevlar jacket still gets soaking wet which is a pain to deal with at the office, third it makes proper fitment impossible. If the jacket is big enough to be comfortable in the winter (heated vest, insulated liner and waterproof/windproof liner) its too loose in the summer without all that and vice versa. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    By putting the liners (for want of a better word) on the outside of the Kevlar and armor you eliminate the fitment issues and gain more insulation without adding any bulk (in fact, you could probably dispatch with the extra insulated liner all together). A waterproof exterior doesn't really hold much water and a few good shakes in the parking garage have it dry enough to take into the office without creating a water hazard. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    The hard part (I think) would be designing the outer liner so that it fit the jacket well and attached to it nicely (or the jacket would zip into the outer shell perhaps) and still looked more or less like a normal jacket. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I am satisfied that the outer shell would not be a hazard in a crash in that it would not need to be all that thick and would almost instantly burn through. Thus one need not be worried that it would be too slick and cause a downed rider to slide further than would be optimal due to reduced rider/asphalt friction (this conclusion based on a very scientific crash wearing a quality first gear rain suite over armored motorcycle gear<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"> :deal <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype>). <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Anyway, if ya came out with a shell that I could zip my GPII into (pants and jacket would be great) for winter duty I'd be thrilled and first in line to buy it. Currently there's not a winter jacket on the market that I really like.
    <o:p></o:p>
    While I'm rambling, might I ask if its possible to have my GPII pants altered to include a full length side zipper (and perhaps some minor fitment changes)? I'm not dead set on the idea, but am curious if its reasonably doable. Most of the time I don't mind removing my boots to change, but sometimes that's a real hassle depending on the situation.

    have fun and keep up the good work,


    Josh
    #73
  14. PizzaHog

    PizzaHog Thought Criminal

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,775
    Location:
    Left Coast, CA
    Yah! And, if you ignore t00bs like license2ill, maybe I'll get my pants sooner...? :D

    Motoport sells a nice PVC jacket at a very reasonable price: Delta Plus for $24 (I tried to paste a link; we've already addressed the crappy-website issue). Wore it in the rain yesterday (yes, it rains up here in Ecotopia; how else would all the pot plants in the Golden Triangle get watered?:evil) Worked just fine - I stayed dry and comfy.

    In any event, it's his frickin' company, and he can do what he wants. Just as we're free to buy what we want. Fortunately, at least in my case, there is an overlap.

    Now, can we please put all this Cambridge/CE certification crap to bed, at least for this thread? It's becomming tiresome. :bluduh
    #74
  15. Wayne at Motoport

    Wayne at Motoport Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Oddometer:
    190
    Hi Josh,

    It is difficult to answer your ideas in a brief format. I'll try.
    The GP-2 Kevlar Jacket and Pant is a race suit. We make many of the GP-2 Kevlar Jackets with an optional zip out WWB liner. In both a one piece jacket liner and a liner with zip out Thermoloft Insulation. The GP-2 Kevlar pant is made to wear only underwear underneath. Putting a full length zipper would work if the pant fits very loose. It sounds like you want an over pant. We can add the zipper but would not recommend it.

    Thanks for the positive comments,
    Wayne
    #75
  16. LongWays

    LongWays Skiing up a hill...

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Oddometer:
    5,445
    Location:
    City of Subdued Excitement.... no really it is!
    Ya get back to work, I'm waiting for my Ultra Kevlar Mesh jacket and pants.
    :ddog
    #76
  17. license2ill

    license2ill Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Oddometer:
    715
    You're apparently confused again, I have not called you for anything. You;ve still not substantiated any of the claims fo your products at all. You can have lal the jobs you want, but you're still not addressing the issues with factual info that's applicable to the questions.
    #77
  18. BikePilot

    BikePilot Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Oddometer:
    11,951
    Location:
    Golden CO
    Thanks for the quick reply, I'll try re-treating with 303 on the GPII suit. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    For the inside vs outside thing, I don't mean it just for when it rains, but for everyday use in cold weather. I envisioned something like a Kilimanjaro shell that the kevlar jacket could zip into. I can see where this would be difficult, if not impossible to execute with the ultra II style jacket, but on the GP II jacket it seems like it would require fairly minimal R&D work. I know not everyone would want it this way, but I would and many others here have expressed similar preferences. Perhaps it could be an option either way? I have given the inside option a chance, in fact I rode all last winter with my ultra II and inside liner. While its a great jacket and the inside liner is great for some situations, I just prefer the outside style for my uses in cold weather. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I totally agree with the WWB comments:thumb<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Your comments on the armor make sense, although I still prefer formed armor at the elbows at least, even on my Ultra II jacket (I have an older cordura one). I do really like the chest armor - its something I haven't seen on any other street gear and it makes perfect sense to have it there. I have skinny, boney arms and its more a comfort thing than a concern about protection. No big deal though. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I wore my Kilimanjaro in to work today as it was raining hard (outer shell thing) and I wanted to give it a try to see if I'd be comfortable with it for the winter (just got it). It was warm and dry but my motoport stuff is much more confidence inspiring in terms of crash protection. I guess I just want the best of both worlds.



    have fun,<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Josh<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    #78
  19. ON_the_DL

    ON_the_DL My safety's Harvard

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Oddometer:
    200
    Just give it up!!! You are the one who can't support your claims. At least Wayne has some actual tests on his actual product. If you don't believe the claims that is your right. But you have in fact resorted to name calling using the term 'bullshit' which is completely uncalled for and infantile to say the least.

    NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR ANYTHING ELSE FROM YOU UNTIL YOU CAN BACKUP YOUR NEGATIVE COMMENTS REGARDING MOTOPORT AND PROVE YOURSELF TO BE SOMETHING MORE THAN A SELF PROCLAIMED EXPERT.

    STOP GOING ON AND ON ABOUT A PRODUCT THAT YOU HAVE NEVER EVEN SEEN LET ALONE TESTED. IT MAKES YOU LOOK RATHER SILLY.
    #79
  20. levain

    levain STILL Jim Williams Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Oddometer:
    10,364
    Location:
    Charlotte, Vt
    Wayne,
    were my Ultra 2 kevlar pants treated with the fabric 303 stuff at your shop? Now, I know what to do. they definitely took in alot of rain last week! Love the pants, just wondering if they were treated once already during manufacturing.

    Thanks
    #80