Different paths to the same end

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by Singletrack, Jun 21, 2004.

  1. Singletrack

    Singletrack Adventurer

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    Just wondering, how is it that BMW, a maker of solid, slow, opposed twin-cylinder touring bikes ends up with a street/trail motorcycle (the new 1200GS) that weighs just shy of 500 lbs. wet, coincidentally, the same weight as the KTM 950 Adventure, a bike from a company that makes light, high performance single cylinder off-road motorcycles?

    Do the each of the components on each bike weigh the same, despite being radically different in design? KTM designed an all-new super-light V-Twin, but the bike is no lighter than that GS with the boat anchor opposed twin ;) If the engine is lighter, where is the extra poundage hidden on the KTM?

    My 500 lb. KTM beast recently squashed my knee against a tree stump when I tipped the bike over on a tight trail. A week later and my knee still looks like an over-ripe eggplant :eek1

    On the BMW, the outrigger sticking out the side may have saved my leg. (But then, I probably wouldn't have been on such a tight trail on the GS in the first place :wink: ) That's the KTM paradox. It's so good off-road that it makes you forget it weighs 500 lbs. Until it's too late.

    Inquiring minds want to know. :ear
    #1
  2. Desmofan

    Desmofan Been here awhile

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    Personally, I don't believe all that Bimmer propaganda, I think all the press bikes were acid dipped :rofl :rofl :rofl

    Well for one thing, the 1200GS has no frame and a wealth of cast aluminum-light, but how fatigue and impact proof?
    The 950 trellis frame (like Ducati's) is not the last word in lightweight, but like Ducs, strong and stiff.
    The dry sump system (with separate tank and lines) will never be a light solution, but is the answer for lowering the engine's CG and reducing engine windage. Have you looked at how high those jugs are on...uh...:sweeti ...on the GS?

    I find it amusing that it's harder to pull my DRZ400 with full tank off the side stand, then the 950! The CG's waaaaaaaay down there :D
    #2
  3. motozilla

    motozilla Long timer

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    INTERESTING COMPARISON. THE GS FEELS THE SAME WAY AS THE KTM THOUGH. THEY ARE BOTH REMARKABLE CONSIDERING THE WEIGHT. THE KTM IS THE BETTER OFF ROAD MACHINE WITHOUT A DOUBT.
    #3
  4. Stephen

    Stephen Long timer Supporter

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    Nope. LC8 motor is not a stressed part of the frame. Fairly early design decision. IIRC, didn't add enough rigidity, didn't save enough weight, did increase perceived vibration, created other design obstacles.
    #4
  5. KTMax

    KTMax Ninth of the Nazgul

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    Important detail; they don't weight the same... only in the brochures.

    Most German bike mags actually put testbikes on a scale. All filled up and ready to go like we ride them. Not according to some coded norm # fgtr837 bla bla (the small letters in some brochures refered to with a * :D ).
    I have three tests comparing the 1200GS with the 950 and others. In every one of them the GS puts 242 KGs (533 lbs.) on the scale while the KTM does 220 - 223 KGs (485 - 491 lbs.). So the KTM is at least 20 KGs lighter. :nod
    #5
  6. gorgopodaros

    gorgopodaros Been here awhile

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    The thing with the boxer is that
    a) if you fall, you might bend or brake something vital that is exposed out there
    b) even worse, if you fall with a lot of kms on tarmac, then the bike could spin on that sticking cylinder and ooops there goes that leg for good :cry :cry (this is the reason why the Greek police bikers changed from BMWs to in-line 4 cylinders some years ago...)

    Besides that and the crap suspension, the GS is a very nice touring - adv bike for me...

    KTMax are you sure about hose weight figures ??? :eek1
    (are they with fuel toped?)
    #6
  7. KTMax

    KTMax Ninth of the Nazgul

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    No I made them up. Thought I looked nice... :lol3 Of course I am.
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  8. SQD8R

    SQD8R Eat squids and be merry

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    the GS runs WP suspension and is as quick handling as the KTM. Check the current issue of BIKE if you doubt this. Where do you get the idea it has crap suspension?
    #8
  9. Singletrack

    Singletrack Adventurer

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    Cycle Canada weighs the bikes fully fuelled, ready to ride as well. For the KTM, they recorded 227 Kg (500 lbs.) Plus my bike now has the saddle bag mounts and a centrestand which must add another 10-15 lbs.

    The Beemer has the centrestand, integral luggage mounts, heated grips and shaft drive! I wonder if the GS weight quoted above includes ABS?

    Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have the high, hard jugs on the KTM than the low hanging floppy ones of the GS anyday :thumb :sweeti
    #9
  10. JimC

    JimC Long timer

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    Grizzly actually took the time and effort to have his R12GS weighed at an official government weigh station. No need to guess any more. There is a thread on the GSpot "R1200GS... Weight question" with the original post.

    Jim in Sacramento

    Attached Files:

    #10
  11. gorgopodaros

    gorgopodaros Been here awhile

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    I don't know how they perform on good quality tarmac, but here in Greece, where the roads are not the finest (very-very slippery and full of holes) you have no feeling at all.
    And you wouldn't talk about dirt riding, right ?
    #11