Digging Up Bones - YZ465 Resurrection

Discussion in '2 smokers' started by wfopete, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Oddometer:
    850
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    I hadn't really looked at her for over a year; just kinda lost the passion. I didn't even enter another post vintage race after 2016 even though I had some other bikes that I could have rode. Maybe it was the constant tuning or the never ending parts search. Truthfully, the old girl needed some serious work. So she sat there, listless, sans front wheel, pipe, carby and still dirty from her last 2016 event; the ISDT Reunion Ride held in Arkansas and hosted by the Razorback Riders. I didn't realize it at the time but the clutch side crank seal had blown. I'm pretty sure it was right before the final grass track moto of the day. While on the start line the YZ was sucking, burning and puking ATF in large quantities. Even though mortally wounded the old girl soldiered on to finish the event, but that was it. It had been a long year of racing for both of us. The YZ didn't even get a decent clean up. She was pushed into a recess where she wouldn't bother me or get in the way of other "more important" projects. When the stock pipe was removed I had found cracks in several places and it had been bent up aganist the downtube. Fork seals were leaking and some hardware was missing; so was the carburetor. I had stripped the fresh M59 Brigstone tire off to use on a another bike and didn't even bother to put the YZ's front wheel back on. I didn't even renew my AHRMA membership for 2017. When I rode, I rode modern bikes at modern events. I rode a few national enduros. Two of them left me with multiple hospital visits and a injured right leg that required months off a bike. Still there were those occasions when I brushed by the YZ on my way to other things; and she pulled at me. Almost like saying "Com'on, with a little work we could have so much fun again". She knew I missed her and that big bore painter shaker engine with it's crazy, thick power and that chassis's high center of gravity. I gave in to her. I needed to commit to her again so I circled Diamond Don's race weekend on my calendar, sent off my membership to AHRMA and placed a phone call to AMS in Arizona and had a sexy PFR pipe ordered. There, I did it; at over $400 for the pipe and silencer plus hundreds more looming in entry fees, gate fees, fuel, food and more parts; there was no turning back now.

    aaa.JPG
    #1
  2. mikeysduck

    mikeysduck Slow Ride to Nowhere

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    She looks good for her age.
    #2
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  3. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Ok enough with the female gender association with the YZ.

    Recently before going with a PFR pipe I checked with several pipe sources. Vintage Iron was still looking for a welder, Bills's Pipes, Jemco and several other didn't have specs or was covered up building other pipes. DG pipes are available but IMO, of marginal quality. Ace Racing out of Houston can build you an chamber if you supply a decent pipe for them to make a jig from. About a 2 month wait and $200. That pretty much left DG and PFR. Fortunately I found a 465 PFR pipe/silencer in stock at AMS.

    The PFR pipe arrived and although I wasn't overly impressed with the build of the pipe, I was more concerned as if was going to even fit. The first eight inches of the pipe took all sorts of twists and turns that the OEM pipe didn't but on a preliminary fit it went on fine. The build quality was less than expected. Welds looked sloppy/poor and too much use of brazing where welds would have been more desirable. Kinda ugly all the way around. Also the mount bracket does not have a nut welded/brazed like the OEM pipe so you now have to fumble with that.

    gag6.jpg

    gag7.jpg

    The head of the PFR pipe is larger than the OEM pipe because it uses O-rings that go over the exhaust manifold to help give the connection a good seal. Also; check out the alignment of the piece that goes over the exhaust manifold and the first section of headpipe tubing.

    gag12.JPG
    #3
  4. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    What don't you like about the DG pipe? Had one for 20 years or so and no problems.
    #4
  5. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    IMO, a DG is simply at the low end of chambers available. I've used them back in the 80's because they were cheap. But even back then you could tell they were a budget stamped pipe in build, fit and performance. Current retail on DG's site is around $325 shipped. For that kind of money.... I would just assume take a beat up OEM pipe and send it off to a shop to be repaired and save $200. For $435 (shipped) my PFR at least came with a decent looking rebuildable alloy silencer. In fact , if the pipe was built as nicely as the silencer I would be very happy. I think Eric (of PFR) is overwhelmed with orders and the people who are building the pipes are eithier rushed or not very good welders.

    sil1pfr.jpg

    s1pfr.jpg
    #5
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  6. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Next I needed to address the clutch side crank seal. I drained the remaining ATF, pulled off the clutch side cover and was surprised by a primary gear nut that had backed off the crankshaft with the primary gear trying to follow in kind. I don't think I ever took the primary gear off this motor so...? The clutch hub wasn't going to let the primary gear go far but the damage had been done.

    gag2.jpg

    With the nut dancing around the end of crankshaft and grinding up against the crankcase cover, the last few threads of the crankshaft and the nut were damaged with the nut leaving a deep gouge in the magnesium side cover.

    gag3.jpg

    This; I didn't need. Beat up M18x1.0 threads. Noted the "Chewed" seal retainer plate. Someday when I have more courage I'll split the cases.

    gag4.jpg

    Does the crank seal look like it is installed correctly? It is and it easly removed with the crank in place.

    se1.jpg


    Diamond Don's is a week away. For now parts and a 18x1.0 die are in transit.



    .
    #6
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  7. brucifer

    brucifer Long timer

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    Well, that's a bum deal. :bluduh Hope the threads clean up okay.
    #7
  8. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    I would try a thread file first,to give the die a straight shot. The parts fiche lists an o-ring behind the primary gear. Part #93210-29282-00. Listed as available by Yamaha. Need a parts catalog fiche? Shoot me an e-mail address via PM and I'll send ya a PDF.
    #8
  9. mudmantra

    mudmantra Been here awhile

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    The chewed seal retainer is pretty common on the 1980 YZ465. I believed it was replaced with a new style retainer, on the YZ465H. I used one from a YZ490J on my YZ465. The crankshaft nut was already loose on the YZ490J parts motor, so with more run time, it would have failed too. Probably time for me to check my YZ465 again too. YZ465G and YZ465H-on, seals/retainers.

    465g seal keeper.JPG YZ465H-on.JPG
    #9
  10. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    All good to know. I considered a thread file but I didn't feel comfortable using it as opposed to the die while the motor was in the frame. That's a good idea to get the die started but I don't have a thread file anyway and now it too late into the game to get one. I may regret it but I'll find out soon.

    I should have known about the seal holder upgrade. I ordered the O-ring but I think it's was discontinued on later models so maybe it's not a big deal as the seal p/n is the same for the G and H models. The Primary gear nut is NLA through Yamaha but Ebay coughed up some very nice NOS versions, so I bought two.
    #10
  11. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Trying to get the M18 die started was next to impossible. Truly a thread file was in order. Try as I might, I could not find a 1.0mm file in time. However a standard 24 TPI comes within a hair's breath (1.058mm) of the required 1.0mm. After about an hour's worth of gentle work with the thread file the primary gear nut would spin on.


    Also, apparently the "three tang" clutch lock washer is NLA as I was shipped a "two tang" version. Chalk it up to parts obsolescence I guess. I made it work but just in case thread locking agent was applied as a back up on both the clutch and primary nuts. I need to keep an eye out for the correct lock washer.

    wa1.jpg

    ccc.jpg

    With the clutch assembled, I pulled the clutch lever on the handlebars and got...nutin'. I knew right away the likey culprit; that stupid ball bearing that always wants to run and hide from me. I found the sucker though and once installed things worked as they should.

    gfdd.jpg
    #11
  12. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Next up was more cleaning of the caked on grunge on the engine and frame. That took a bit of work. I mounted the Mikuni carburetor with minimal fuss. Now to install the PFR pipe. Ah the pipe...it continues to amaze me at how these things get good reviews. In short I'll just say; custom pipes have custom problems. The head of the pipe uses three O-rings to help seal to the exhaust manifold and they are a tight fit. I've been told not to expect a long life expectancy out of them; we'll see. Getting the pipe springs on the hangers require a bit of work too, requiring me to move the spring mount tab on the cylinder to keep the spring from contacting the pipe. One spring travels behind the down tube and ends up rubbing the frame. The OEM springs worked (sort of) but the center spring is a little long while the two outer springs are too short for proper tension for the best fit.

    gag16.jpg

    Once the pipe was in place, I went to mount the silencer and found this:

    gag13.jpg

    gag15.jpg

    Looks like the jig used in making these pipes needs to be examined as the pipe sits an inch to low and will require cutting and rewelding to correct. Also the pipe needs a good 3/4" of material removed to get this to fit. Like I said; custom pipes have custom problems and I have a feeling that I will have continuing problems from this pipe. At this rate, I may just take pictures at Diamond Don's because I don't like the way things are working out but I've been here before and have survived. Maybe someone will have a nice DG YZ465 pipe for sale there but for now, I'm screwed. :muutt


    .
    #12
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  13. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    I have a decent OEM pipe for the 465.
    #13
  14. mudmantra

    mudmantra Been here awhile

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    Order a clutch washer for a 1983 YZ490 part number 90215-20212-00, it works for the YZ465, and all the 490's.

    yz clutch.JPG
    #14
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  15. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Thanks for the offer but unless you're in the Jefferson Texas area this weekend it won't help for this race. Good to know about the clutch washer! I'll take the YZ to DD's anyway because there is always a chance of finding a pipe for sale. With a little luck perhaps I can salvage a couple of motos in Sundays PV race. I had an old IT465 pipe that was usable but the stinger on it is several inches shorter than the YZ version so it's not a bolt on fix and I don't want to cut up the pipe. I installed new fork seals yesterday and I'll assembly the rest of the bike today. True to form, the weather forecast is for major thunderstorms Fridayand those will probably make the X/C event that day a mess. In 2012 I raced there and the mud was thick, deep and ugly...kinda like the Seattle SX last weekend. I have a call in to Eric at Maico's Only about the pipe...and so it goes.
    #15
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  16. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    Couple shots of the pipe.

    DSC_2234.JPG
    DSC_2235.JPG
    #16
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  17. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    PM sent
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  18. FJ_Kevin

    FJ_Kevin Been here awhile

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    Glad to see you got it up and running! Can't keep a good 465 down!
    #18
  19. FJ_Kevin

    FJ_Kevin Been here awhile

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    Wow, they should really hang their head in shame for sending that pipe out. The offset in the header flange was bad enough but now this. Honestly, I would send it back. Its pretty shoddy all the way around. At least the silencer looks OK.

    I recently bought a DEP maico pipe. They are located in Delaware and had a 25% off sale. It ran $179 with discount. Not sure if they make a yz465 pipe but may be worth looking. The DEP is similar to a DG. No idea how it will hold up but looks OK enough.
    #19
  20. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    According to my research the best YZ465 pipe is made by Geoff Morris Concepts. Bummer is they are in Australia. Cost is $600 or so delivered to US. Maybe.
    #20