Digging Up Bones - YZ465 Resurrection

Discussion in '2 smokers' started by wfopete, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Yes, OZ has some nice pipes but the build time and price; whew!

    I checked with DEP about a year ago...no dice on the YZ.

    I'm talking with the PFR folks now.
    #21
  2. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Update time. First the pipe, I'll probably send it back to AMS for a refund with no resolution from PFR. I took Michael up on his OEM pipe offer (thanks for the killer deal Michael!). The pipe had been seasoned with a couple of dings but it was straight and had no cracks. I wire wheeled the rough spots and shot it with a couple of coats of BBQ paint. Didn't look too bad and mounted up fine to the PFR silencer. I had rebuilt the rear brake lever. I wanted to do the same to the rear brake stay rod and backing plate bushing but that's a rather involved proceedure that will require buying a aftermarket piece and machining new parts, so maybe another day.

    I wanted to ride the YZ at a 3 day AHRMA event here in Arkansas. Two days of XC races and one day of MX. I assembled the rest of the bike a loaded up for Combs, AR. A lot of riders don't like Combs because it's rough...very rough. Rocks, roots, ruts and loose hills are the norm and bikes and riders take a beating but since I live in Arkansas I'm used to all of it. In a major departure from my normal pizza and jelly donut regimen, I took a vow of poverty for the weekend and my diet consisted of H2O, Coke, tuna and a few breakfast bars. I had tuna for dinner, breakfast and lunch.

    100_3971.jpg

    The XC course was a either/or deal. You were either wide open (that's 4th or 5th gear on a YZ465) down rocky straightaways or you were in woods so tight there were areas where you could have used them for a trials bike sections. First gear turns followed by a hill climb littered with rocks/roots. There were a couple of places were I could get into second gear...briefly. After the sight in lap some vintage riders loaded up and headed home. The woods were that demanding. XR, KDX and IT 200s were the weapon of choice; a YZ465G MX bike was not. The YZ was giving me problems starting as I had to flood the motor and hold the throttle wide open to start the bike; hot or cold. Also the motor would not idle, even with the idle screw turned all the way in; a sure sign of a blocked pilot jet/idle circuit. But nevertheless the low end was awesome and strangely enough the motor worked great; especially the low end response. It was as close to a IT as a YZ could get. For those unfamilar with my YZ; the engine consists of a YZ bottom end with a IT top end ported by Eric Gorr. Eric also did the "head mod" to the IT head. On the sight in lap I was going though the s/t in first gear and using the clutch to get through the super tight woods. It was a lot of work but slowly I found out that by just leaving the clutch out and simply feathering the throttle I had better results. I mean that motor would drop down to damn near 0 rpm and still pick right up smoothly. It was crazy, I would come into a downhill, first gear, loose rocky section with a uphill turn, I would drop down to a walking speed and just roll on the throttle to get up a loose, slippery off camber hill. The motor never stalled the in the tight woods. All this with MX gearing. I don't know if the blocked idle circuit has anything to do with it but I liked it. I didn't crash all weekend...and at times I don't know how I didn't. Even in the woods I could tell the rebound dampening both front and rear was too light and if it was too light in the woods it would be way too light on the MX course. The tight woods flat wore me out. I rode the 60+ Expert class. The line was full of XR and IT's and once we hit the woods, they ran away from me so my results were terrible. I placed near the back of my class but overall I ended up 13th each day (unlucky number?) of around 30 riders. Friday and Saturday were the XC races. Saturday was a little better only because the the course was grooved in...a little. By the end of Saturday the YZ was together and my gear was stinky, I let them all dry out in the breeze. Oh, Trampas Parker (125/250 World MX champ) took the XC win. Trampas is a nice guy.

    100_3970.jpg

    More to come.



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    #22
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  3. brucifer

    brucifer Long timer

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    Glad to see an update here, Pete. :thumb
    Awesome to hear your bike worked so well in the tight stuff. Kind of out of character for these things, isn't it? :D
    On a side note, I may be acquiring one of these beasties soon. I should know by the weekend.
    #23
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  4. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    Great to see that old pipe go to good use. Thanks for the update.
    #24
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  5. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Sunday it was time to leave the woods and head to the MX track. Mike Parker had commissioned some local pros, including Guy Cooper, to help design this track and it was pretty good layout. You could tell alot of work had gone into this track. I entered the 60+ Expert class thinking there would not be many folks in the class. Wrong again. Plenty of old fast guys came out of the woodwork to hand me my ass Sunday, including Okie Trey Jorski who turned sixty this year. Trey is an ex-pro who banged bars at the national level during the 70's with Jimmy Weinert, Brad Lackey and Marty Smith. 'Nuff said. Another problem I had was this class was open to some good bikes. Lots of lightweight, blood red mid eighties CR250 Hondas were on the line with suspension several notches above mine. I should have entered the GP class where I would be riding against machines more inline with my 1980 bike. You don't see alot of crossover bikes or riders from XC to MX but there are a few and they are generally pretty good riders. Practice went fine but the guys who ride MXregularly were taking to the course a lot faster than I was. I practiced starts hoping I would at least make a good showing when the rubber band was released. I ended up using second gear for the start so as to not abuse the clutch too much and second gear required less talent than using third gear leaving the line.

    [​IMG]

    The start was filled with lots of small rocks but they were not a problem. What was a problem was the dust. The track dried out quickly and if you were not at least the third bike to the first corner visibility would suck. Needless to say I ate a lot of dust and by the time the dust had cleared so had the leaders. Well at least now I had the track to myself. The faster riders were throwing whips over the table top while I settled for more a conventional style (low and slow). Even though the jumps were freindly, my undersprung and under dampened forks told me to not get carried away or they would pogo me right off my intended line.

    combsjump.JPG

    And that's about how my weekend went. I kept the bike and body intact. I'm regrouping now, making notes and getting ready for the AMA Vintage M/C Days at Mid-Ohio this July. I've never been to the AMA Vintage Days even though it's been going on for many years, should be a good time. Again I plan to ride both the XC and MX races. Lets see; fork springs, carburetor, lose 30 lbs, more tuna and less Coke.

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    #25
  6. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    I had great results with the Race Tech cartridge emulators. The shock is another story. Can you say Yamahop?
    #26
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  7. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    I think the forks are just a matter of correct springs, oil and tuning. I really shot myself in the foot when I replaced the seals I threw in 15 wt oil but came up a little short so I made up the rest with ATF. To make matters worse, I set the level at 6" without the RT emulators (way too low), should have been around 130mm. Emulators only control compression damping, the rebound is controlled solely by oil weight and level. Today's vintage friendly tracks are usally pretty well groomed so as to whiners at bay. A far cry from the burnt out, chewed junk we grew up on. Thus, Yamahop isn't much of an issue. Still a sexy RT shock would be sweet.
    #27
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  8. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    One thing........braking bumps.

    [​IMG]
    #28
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  9. FJ_Kevin

    FJ_Kevin Been here awhile

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    Bravo Pete! Great to see you are going again and excellent race report, really enjoyed reading it! And Trey Jorski! Now that's tough competition!

    And I'll also say thanks to Michael on the pipe deal, that was a very cool thing to do! Doesn't seem like Petes adventure would have happened without his help. Very cool!

    Glad to see things going again. Have a great weekend!
    #29
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  10. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    See you at Mid-Ohio Kevin?????
    #30
  11. brucifer

    brucifer Long timer

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    I got it, Pete. May be bugging you and Kevin with questions later on.
    DSC00367.JPG
    DSC00369.JPG

    Has the obligatory DG pipe, an Eric Gorr modded head with compression release, IT465 air box, flywheel weight, rebuilt kicker internals, rebuilt top end a few years ago and has only been trail ridden since.
    Needs some serious TLC as far as cosmetics. And coincidentally, the rear brake lever needs help bad. It has taken a hard hit and is pretty mangled. The bushing is garbage--huge sloppiness. It has been wearing against the clutch cover pretty severely.
    Anyway, sorry for the thread jack. I'm stoked to get this thing! :D
    #31
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  12. FJ_Kevin

    FJ_Kevin Been here awhile

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    Sorry no, just too busy around here. But staying on top of things and all is going well! Just repaired the chain saw and going out later to clear some downed limbs on the farm track.

    I will be looking forward to your report though!
    #32
  13. FJ_Kevin

    FJ_Kevin Been here awhile

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    Looks pretty good from here. These are such great bikes, congratulations!
    #33
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  14. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Looks very orginal and a good starter bike; congrats.

    Might want to raised those forks a bit...if you even want it to turn.
    #34
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  15. brucifer

    brucifer Long timer

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    Thank you, Kevin. It looks better than it is in the pics though.

    Thank you, Pete.
    #35
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  16. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Bruce, what is the attaction of using an IT airbox on a 465???
    #36
  17. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    Was wondering that myself.
    #37
  18. brucifer

    brucifer Long timer

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    According to the gentleman I got the bike from (inmate mudmantra on here), the IT box seals better and there's more room inside.
    He's pretty sharp regarding these bikes. He has an '82 YZ490 that is displayed in the showroom with other vintage bikes at our work--Humboldt Motorsports--and another 490 waiting to be built.
    #38
  19. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    So back to work on the YZ. First the jetting, no wait...first the body, more specifically my right knee that I injured last year. MRIs and X Rays revealed floating bone chips, arthritis and some ripped up stuff but the docs advised to hold off on debridement removal figuring it may be the lesser of the two or three evils. If I have continuing pain or "other" problems, then surgery would be ok. This has resulted in a few interesting moments when the joint has gone rouge and sent me to the ground in some interesting places; like the local Kroger parking lot. I now wear a knee brace when I ride which gives me a ton of confidence.

    Now the jetting. I pulled the pilot jet (#50) and cleaned it. Then I found a #35 pj, which is a bit lean but it was a new so I installed it. The bike idled better but I know I really need to move up a couple of sizes. The Uni air filter got a cleaning but will also need to be replaced before too long. The Uni was new back in 2012 but its lifespan is dwindling. I found a place in Europe that sells what looks like a better filter than what I’m running now. Not sure what the price is…maybe we could get a group buy thing going, eh?

    Next up was the giant elephant in the room; the suspension. I’ve known this was an issue from when I first bought the bike. I had Race Tech (RT) Emulators installed and the shock had been rebuilt but what I kept holding off on was new springs. In a slower XC setting the suspension was not too bad, but once on anything that had some speed and bigger hits (read: MX) the ride deteriorated quickly. I like the folks at Race Tech as they seem too know a fair amount about the YZ465 (they have one for a project bike). According to RT, the 465 came undersprung, especially the rear shock. Yamaha had a trick tapered wire rear spring on the bike but it was way soft. In the front the bike came with .34kg springs, which is REAL soft if left as is, but at the time of this bike the use of air pressure in the front forks and running 4-6 psi was the De rigueur. Time marches on and now air forks have come and gone and come and gone again. Anyway, I run .46kg springs on my KTM300. I like to think I’m faster on the KTM than my YZ, however the YZ is a heavier bike than the KTM. The RT spring rate calculator confirmed that the .46 springs were right in the ballpark for my skill level and weight. Now .46 springs are actually a bit light for REAL MX but I also ride XC which calls for a lighter spring than pure MX work. Also, I’ve rode many a vintage and post vintage Motocross race and the tracks are relatively tame and mellow compared to what MX was back in the 80’s and today. Many of these MX tracks are natural terrain grass tracks or well groomed MX tracks designed to accommodate bikes with 4-7 inches of travel so suspension isn’t taxed too badly…if at all. I figured .46s would be fine.

    In the rear I went with a 5.0 spring. RT makes a nice set up for this bike. You get a two-piece spring and a new collar/hardware. Seems well thought out. There is evidence of some oil seepage from the shock on the frame and shock body. The damping seems solid but it is a concern. The whole RT thing was a little pricey but replacing the front or rear springs by themselves would have resulted in more problems. I needed to get the correct springs front and rear for a balanced suspension. I’ll get to work paying off that over-heated Visa card next month.

    Installing the rear spring was a bit more challenging than the front as I had to “Macgyver” a spring compressor. Somehow I escaped without injury.

    yzspring.jpg

    Sure is pretty. Too bad it all gets covered up under the seat/tank.

    soce.jpg

    I set the sag on the forks and shock to RT’s specs. The forks required a little math but in the end I had set 5mm of pre-load with 20wt oil set at 130mm. The shock was adjusted to 95mm of sag and the compression set in the middle of its adjustment. I had just a few days before leaving for the AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days and needed to see how this set up felt, especially on jumps. My buddy had a grass track with several friendly tabletop and single jumps in it. I made loops of the jumps; slowly picking up the speed as I gained confidence in how the suspension reacted. I’m not a big jumper and didn’t want to take any soil samples but after a couple of hours of riding the YZ passed the muster feeling solid and predictable up and over the jumps. When I first went out I rode tense and stiff. After I came in for a break (it was hot out) I told my buddy I needed to relax, loosen up and start moving around on the bike. When I went out again that is exactly what I did and I felt much more comfortable. Never the less, the YZ is a big girl and you feel it in the air as the bike doesn't like to move around much. Flat landings were a little harsh and the rebound felt a little “dead” but it wasn’t enough of an issue to change anything…yet.

    more to come.


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    #39
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  20. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    This was my first AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days (VMD) and I got in just before noon on Thursday. I’ve been to Barber MSP years ago but Mid-Ohio is like a free-for-all Woodstock version; minus the museum. I registered for the XC race, looked around for a bit and found the pumps for race gas. I never ran race fuel in the 465 but it bought a gallon of 110 octane and mixed it with what was in my gas can then left as the heat was building. I was staying with my brother in law who lived about 45 minutes from the race. Fortunately the temps eased off the rest of the weekend and the mornings were cool while afternoons were in the high 70-80 degree mark with no rain. From what I heard this was the best weather in years. My wife brought her mountain bike to ride around. I told her before she left that I didn’t think that would be a good idea. When she came back, she had a thousand-yard-stare from trying to survive on a pedal bike while every kind of motorized two-wheeled machine (often guided by idiots) buzzed around her. One of the few times she admitted that I was right. The MX course was getting freshly ripped and jumps were getting built including a decent sized tabletop jump and a brand new backward falling starting gate was installed. I didn’t count the gates but I would say it held at least 20 bikes and probably more. Very cool. Vintage Japanese enduro bikes seemed to be the chosen machine to use as transportation at Mid-Ohio. DT’s, LT’s, TS’s, XL’s, SL’s, and a few Hodakas paraded around 24/7. Note to self: Don’t go again without two-wheeled transportation. The official swap meet area probably took up at least five acres but almost everyone, everywhere, had something for sale. Judging from the prices I saw some folks were very proud of their junk. I suspect many prices dropped when Sunday arrived. By noon Friday the place was packed. This picture is of about 1/4 of the Mid-Ohio event.

    36983637_10156610250365719_3226853317971804160_n.jpg

    The XC race was Friday with 300+ bikes. The club putting it on was a bit overwhelmed. My row was full with around 30 bikes. No sight in lap and I was dumb enough not to walk the course before hand. The start was the old live engine/left hand on helmet style. I hadn’t seen this type of start used in 30 years and some riders had a tuff time grasping the concept. There was not an over 60 class so I found myself on row 4; Open 50+. The infield was freshly bush hogged, still damp and a little slick. I made a couple of practice starts and found traction good…for the rear tire anyway. The first row took off and had a rider go down hard in the first corner. The large spectator crowd (my wife included) gasped as his bike and body flipped through the air with the bike landing on top of the rider. The rider was unable to get the bike off of him without help. Good stuff. With some assistance, the rider got up slowly and I think at some point continued the race. After that miscue, the rest of us had that vision pinned firmly in our goggles and folks got a little more courteous. I was on the far outside of the line; generally not good but due to the wide, slick turn I managed to sweep around most of the riders and secure a 4th place out of the corner. The YZ was running well. So well in fact that I found myself running out of braking traction; slamming into the rider in front of me going into the second corner. No one went down but my right boot hit a big hit. Fun times indeed. Now we went into the single track but still at a fairly brisk pace. I was holding my own, got around a couple of riders and generally doing well considering it was my first time on this course. I was surprised when we actually got into some steep up and down hills leading into and out of creek beds. Reminded me of Arkansas and I felt right at home. Several riders got hung up around the creeks mostly from hesitating. The 465 ripped up the hillsides but even though this was the first lap and I was on row 4; things were getting chewed and rutting up quickly. I was starting to think I might make a decent finish if I kept my pace...and didn’t screw up. Then about the time the first lap was complete I noticed I was having trouble shifting. I looked down to find the shift lever had slipped on the shaft. I tried to nurse it along but it was no use; the lever was slipping on the shaft spines. I was stuck in third gear and there was no way I was going to try to put the bike through the upcoming hills stuck in that gear. I pulled off the course to try and see if I could repair the damage and continue but it wasn’t going to be. I had a heck of a time getting that motor started in gear but I did and limped back to the pits. I made another “Macgyver” repair by removing the lever and slipping some SS safety wire over the shaft then tapping the lever back onto the shaft. It worked like a charm but I was too late to rejoin the race. What really PO’d me was the day before I had checked/tightened the shift lever bolt. Maybe I caught something on it. Bummer. I felt sorry for the vintage classes that were to follow us on this same course later in the day and I was sure the hills would be eating the lower ground clearance bikes alive.


    100shift.jpg


    Saturday was vintage MX and a free day for me to just stroll around. Lots of stuff to see with demo rides, displays and seminars every hour. I watched a few MX classes and they had some good battles going on. The road race course had a constant howl emanating from it as old 2 and 4 stroke bikes and their riders did their best to play Kenny Roberts, Freddie Spencer, Eddie Lawson or whomever their idol was back in the day. I did score a nice rear brake stay arm to use on my YZ. I would have preferred a clevis set up on the backing plate end but at $75 I thought the price was ok.

    100_rod.jpg

    I left early to go back to my B-I-L's and repair my twin nephews’ flat front tire on their XR100 Honda. Dad had bought a new tube and I was the “Dirt Bike Uncle” so it was my job to fix that. While I was at it I took care of a few other “items” that desperately needed attention on the XR. With a new tube installed, I pumped the tire up to about 25 psi. Someday I will return and drop it down to the 12 psi range so they will appreciate the difference in handling. That evening I entertained myself by setting up beer bottles as a slow ride/obstacle course for the little ankle bitters to practice on and gave them a lesson or two on how to slip the clutch for added throttle control. You know what they say: Those who can’t; teach. They had a blast trying to best each other’s efforts unitl sundown.

    Sunday morning I was back up to Mid-Ohio early for my MX race. Practice was at 8:30 and as luck would have it I drew 1st of 7 gate drops for practice; oh joy. Practice was three laps but what was worse was the track received a heavy dose of watering the night before and again that morning which made for a muddy slop fest for riders. At first gate pick we got the worst of the mud. About all anyone could do was to slide around the track and get an idea of the corners and jumps. On the second lap my front end slid out in a corner sending rider and bike into the muck. So much for practice. I spent the next 15 minutes cleaning ten lbs of mud from my wheels, fenders and footpegs.

    100_4004.jpg

    My race was moto five and as suspected the track had completely changed and was now pretty good. The outside line thing worked well the XC race so I used the same strategy for the MX race. Some guy named Terry Cunningham was lined up next to me and we talked a bit while the moto in front of us went on. Now it was our turn. The 10 second board turned sideways and we were off…well everyone but me who tried to jump the start and just barely caught the gate as it fell back. It took three pulls to free the gate from my front tire and by then everyone else was going through the first turn. Damn, I needed to make up time and fast but I was riding a whole new course and not learning it fast enough. Many riders were not hitting the big tabletop jump hard so I figured I could gain a bit there. When I hit the jump face I sailed through the air nicely, landing on the backside just as a rider came across my line for the following left corner. Yup, we connected rather hard and I went over the bars. When I got back up and on the bike the bars were badly twisted in the clamps. It took several on and off the bike efforts to get the bars somewhat back into place. So between my start, the crash and the “on site” adjustment to the bike, a four-lap moto wasn’t long enough for me to recover from my miscues. Ugghhh!

    Back in the pits I loosened up the triple clamps and got everything back straight. The rubber mounted bar clamps didn’t help much in that process. I returned and hour or so later for moto number two. With the first moto a complete mess I revised my goals for the race. Basically lets just not fall down, crash and try ride smoothly. As they say: Slow is Smooth and Smooth is Fast. Words to live by for sure on an open class bike. I made sure I didn’t jump the gate and watched as Mr. Cunningham slid through the first turn well ahead of most of the riders; myself included. The moto was pretty much uneventful although I did spar with a few riders and had fun on the jumps. Being a woods guy I had a hard time making up my mind as to which berm to use in the corners. Tight, wide, middle??? So many choices, so little time. I didn’t feel like this bike liked to hold a corner or maybe I just need to practice cornering a bit to figure out what does work and where. BTW I didn't notice a performance differance from using the 110 octane ($8.50/Gal) race gas. I did notice some pinging from the YZ under load at low RPM but that's another story.

    I didn’t hang around for the results maybe I’ll find them on-line. I tossed the YZ and my gear into the van and got ready to head back to Arkansas. I noticed a nice bruise starting to develop on my thigh. So I guess I did get a trophy after all. Meanwhile if you want to see great pics of Mid-Ohio just do a search on this site for AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days or Mid-Ohio.


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    #40