DL650 and F650GS weights

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by autolycos, Oct 21, 2008.

  1. autolycos

    autolycos True vulgarian

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Oddometer:
    4,216
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    I'm evaluating options for new bikes, and the Wee and the twin F650 are in the running. I was looking at specs and everything seems reasonably comparable...except the difference in curb weights.

    The Bimmer is listed at 377 lb dry.
    The Wee is listed at 485 curb.

    That's astounding! Aside from waking them up from narcolepsy, is the difference going to be noticeable? I've driving one wee, once, on asphalt. Didn't notice anything weird.

    But, that's like a 20% difference in weight between two apparently comparable bikes. Thoughts?
    #1
  2. beep

    beep Guest

    I've tried both these bikes recently and this doesn't surprise me, but obviously you should be comparing like with like, the Vstrom is 434 lb dry (in Europe anyway), so that halves the difference for a start. But the Wee does feel a bit more unwieldy, particularly at low speeds. Both great bikes with their own strong points, I'm struggling to choose between them!
    #2
  3. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    18,873
    Location:
    Richmond, Va

    Your specs are not both "curb".

    You list the Beemer as 377 dry. Add a battery, engine oil, fork oil, coolant, and 4 gallons of gasoline.
    #3
  4. autolycos

    autolycos True vulgarian

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Oddometer:
    4,216
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    I agree, but that's not 112 lbs worth of add. 4.2 gal of gas is about 30 lb. A battery is 6 or so. Engine oil and fork oil probably add up to about 5 lb. Coolant is less than 10 lb.

    So, 50 lb. That leaves 62 unanswered pounds. Still significant, IMO.
    #4
  5. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    18,873
    Location:
    Richmond, Va
    the also strom has more fairing bits.

    Honestly, I'd rather see them weighed in reality, as I don't trust manufacturing specs much at all.

    FWIW, my weestrom with a full tank of gas (an extra gallon and a half compared to the bmw), crash bars, skid plate, luggage rack (no luggage), and a full roll of tools under the seat comes in around 510lbs, as weighed by my self.

    Also to consider is that a v-twin layout is a heavier design than a parallel layout. the parallel twin gets to share heads, cylinder walls, water jackets, cams, cam chains etc.

    V-twin design is typically a smoother running motor due to balancing of the firing sequence.
    #5
  6. jwnsc

    jwnsc Hang in there. Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2004
    Oddometer:
    445
    Location:
    The Iodine State
    Canadian Motorcycle Rider online magazine stated the dry wet weight of the F650GS twin was 394 lbs. and road ready with full tank (wet weight) was 438 lbs.
    http://www.canadianmotorcyclerider.ca/articles.php?id=1094691471205763082?v=2


    In their May 2004 issue, MCN stated the wet weight of a non-ABS DL650 was 471.5 lbs.
    http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/model_eval/200405-VStrom.pdf

    For a 9K-mile, 20 day trip to Alaska next summer, I've got a choice between a $9200 '09 F650GS twin with ABS and heated grips or a '09 DL650 for $6975. By the time you add all the accessories to make the bikes suitable for long distance touring, you're looking at another $2K. In every comparison test I've seen between the two, The Wee Strom is rated as the most comfortable highway bike. I just don't think the BMW is $2275 better than the Wee Strom for my intended application.
    #6
  7. huckleberry

    huckleberry BACK ROAD BOMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,108
    Location:
    N.E. Pa.


    you probably choose the bmw if you were to do the ride on both in my opinion
    #7
  8. Ed@Ford

    Ed@Ford Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2004
    Oddometer:
    3,807
    Location:
    Dearborn MI
    If you look closely at the BMW data, you'll find a F650GS wet weight of 439 #. That according to the DIN spec as being ready to ride with 90% full fuel tank. The wet weight quoted on the DL is curb weight....it may or may not be the DIN equivalent...DIN = Deutsche (German) Industry Norm.

    I've ridden both the DL (owned one for over a year) and an F650GS and the F800GS. The F650GS is like riding a bicycle compared to the long heavy high CG DL. The DL has a better (in terms of coverage) fairing....both are kinda noisy....but windshields are very helmet sensitive and a real personal choice.

    However FORGET two up riding on the BMW...go for the DL
    #8
  9. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Oddometer:
    7,180
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    The Wee´s been around for 4 years, and its frame design is based on the 1000, which made its first appearance in 2002. Is it heavy, yes, does it feel like that in normal road riding and touring, no. Maybe the new GS could be a bit better in the twisties, but the DL aint bad, either. And it has more comfort for long tours.

    The DL has a real sturdy frame, like a streetbike, that probably weighs something, even though its aluminium, but it has its good sides, too, like stability and carrying a lot of weight.

    Those engines actually make roughly the same horsepower (less than 1 hp difference in some dynotests I´ve seen) and even though the Bimmer has 150cc extra, so it has better torque, the characteristics of the Suzuki engine are fine.
    #9
  10. beep

    beep Guest

    I'm coming to same conclusion. Unless you regularly take a passenger (get the Vstrom) or ride offroad a fair bit (get a the BMW), then it'll probably come down to price and dealer preference. I've tried both these bikes twice now - both a lot of fun, both with their strong points over the other.

    Suzuki: better tourer, a bit more room, engine been around for a while and proven very reliable, better fairing, better pillion comfort, better seat.

    BMW: slightly better handling on and offroad, good build quality (shouldn't corrode - Vstrom do corrode badly when exposed to road salt over a winter), good looking bike (very subjective), lighter.

    However on price and dealer location the Suzuki wins hands down (for me anyway). Here in the UK the real (as opposed to ticket) price of the Vstorm is about £1000/$1600 less than the BMW (although the BMW will hold it's value better secondhand). Add to this the fact that the BMW is a new bike and I'll probably be getting the Vstrom.
    #10
  11. Yossarian™

    Yossarian™ Deputy Cultural Attaché

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Oddometer:
    12,818
    Location:
    the 'Ha
    I thought the 90 degree V was smooth due to its primary balance; when one piston is at TDC, the other is at mid-stroke, so they exchange kinetic energy.
    #11
  12. sqwitt

    sqwitt Adventurer

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    74
    Location:
    Northern Sweden
    From Swedish bike mag MC Nytt:

    Weights, fully fuled and ready to go:
    Suzuki DL650 ABS 221kg
    BMW F650GS ABS 215kg

    Only 6kg difference, but Suzuki has 6L more fuel.

    Also tested:
    Kawasaki Versys ABS 209kg
    Honda Transalp 700 ABS 220kg

    /Magnus
    #12
  13. blackie

    blackie Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    434
    Location:
    Cowgary, AB
    It doesn't really matter what the bikes weigh.
    You need to get on both, do a test ride then you'll know for sure if one or the other is for you. Good luck :thumb
    #13
  14. conrado

    conrado Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Oddometer:
    452
    Location:
    Berlin (Germany)
    Yeah, but the 800's peak power comes much earlier (7400 rpm against 9000 rpm) and that torque difference requires a lot more gear shifting on overtakes.

    Data in the picture below is from Motorrad (german magazine). They compared the "small travel enduros": BMW F650GS Twin, Honda Transalp, Kawasaki Verys and Suzuki DL650.

    Very short german lessons:
    Höchstgeschindigkeit (Herstellerangabe) is Top speed (claimed)
    Beschleunigung is acceleration
    Durchzug is acceleration in top gear
    Kratstoffverbrauch is the inverse of mileage (smaller number is better)
    Theoretische Reichweite is calculated fuel autonomy

    BTW, they weighted the bikes (road ready, full tank, with factory bags):
    F650GS: 215 kg
    Transalp: 240 kg
    Versys: 220 kg
    DL650: 221 kg

    So, as someone else on this forum said: wathever bike you choose will be fine. Just don't choose the Transalp :hide

    Attached Files:

    #14
  15. jwnsc

    jwnsc Hang in there. Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2004
    Oddometer:
    445
    Location:
    The Iodine State
    Ok, let me see if I understand this - a bike with an extra 153cc or 19% increase in displacement, has less fuel range, more fuel consumption, and is a tenth of a second quicker to 62 mph and six tenths of a second quicker to 87 mph. And all for only $2000+ more?

    Blackie is right. These two bikes are close enough that the only numbers that matter are the number of dollars you're willing to part with to get one or the other, and the number of miles away the closest dealer is if you don't plan on doing all the maintenance yourself.

    *Durchzug- And will someone please explain the real world usefulness of the top gear roll-on test, especially if your sixth gear is designed as an overdrive for reduced fuel consumption while cruising at steady highway speeds? Who in their right mind wouldn't downshift if quickness was called for?
    #15
  16. Dave92029

    Dave92029 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2003
    Oddometer:
    628
    Location:
    Escondido, CA
    The big differences is not the weight. The F650GS develops it's power at lower RPM and feels like there is much more power at lower RPM. The frame on the BMW feels more rigid and planted. The VStrom feels like a larger bike, the much larger gas tank (5.8gals vs 4.2 gals) sit much higher on the bike.

    I don't think there is much difference is weight, but they do feel much different. The BMW feels sporty and the DL feels like a touring bike.

    The BIG difference is Price$$. The BMW costs almost $5,000 more. I bought a '08 DL650 and OTD was $7,020; the '09 BMW F650GS cost me OTD $11,830. Everything cost much more on the BMW. :huh

    The Engine on the Susuki is slightly smoother than the BMW but they are BOTH great engines. The BMW is larger thus 25% more Torque and 40% more HP. Thus the BMW feels sportier and much faster.:lol3

    Based on price the DL650 is the better bike. If $$ is not considered then the BMW is the better bike. Like many things it really boils down to how much you can and are willing to spend. :deal

    The other Advanatge of the BMW is the Social aspects of BMW ownership. We have a wonderful large local BMW club and if you belong to the BMWMOA there are hundreds of rallies across the USA. I ride for fun so access to the BMW clubs is a big plus and adds a lot to my enjoyment of the bike. :D
    #16
  17. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    18,873
    Location:
    Richmond, Va
    ..and ADV is chopped liver? :lol3
    #17
  18. jwnsc

    jwnsc Hang in there. Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2004
    Oddometer:
    445
    Location:
    The Iodine State
    Actually if you examine the Motorrad dyno chart on the preceding page, the Wee-Strom makes slightly more rear wheel horsepower and 21% less torque.

    Better for what? Touring? Commuting? Off-road exploring? Third World travel?

    As a MOA member since 1997, I certainly have attended my share of rallies over the last 11 years, and one thing I noticed, you don't have to ride a BMW motorcycle to be a member or attend. Beemer people are very open-minded that way. So see you at the National next year in TN. I'll be on the black Wee-Strom with Jesse bags. :evil
    #18
  19. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Oddometer:
    25,932
    Location:
    chico,just below rag dump(nor-cal)
    Check maintenance costs and over all reliability and parts prices between the two. Suzuki by a mile. I would rather ride the thing then take it in regularly for fettling.Hopefully BMW has got beyond the 6,000 mile servicing thing,even Ducati does better then that. But then Ducati builds all their own engines instead of farming em out.
    #19
  20. conrado

    conrado Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Oddometer:
    452
    Location:
    Berlin (Germany)
    Actually, not. The service interval on F650GS is 10.000 km, on the DL650 its 6.000 km.

    The table below is from the same article in Motorrad. Higher numbers mean more awarded points.

    More german lessons:
    Garantie is Warranty
    Verbrauch is Fuel Costs
    Inspektionkosten is Maintenance Costs (Dealer Service)
    Unterhaltskosten is Cost of Consumables (brake pads, tires, ...)

    First column is maximal points awarded, second column is F650GS, followed by Transalp, Versys and DL650.

    Keep in mind that this (obviously) refers to costs in Germany.

    Attached Files:

    #20