Documenting Sandy. Our 1969 CB750 w/ engine #1111

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by ADVDucs33, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. ADVDucs33

    ADVDucs33 Been here awhile

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    I usually don't do build threads, or bother taking a lot of pictures while I save old Hondas from local barns, sheds and woodpiles. This one deserves it, as it's the most important bike to have been in my garage.

    Here it is at the 2019 AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days. Yes, you need to attend next year, its an amazing event. I've attended for 8 years now.
    KIMG0156.JPG
    The old owner had it in storage for the last 10 years and decided to bring it out to it's 50th Anniversary, just because. He didn't have intentions to sell it, more or less show it as it is.

    After around 45 minutes of conversation with the owner and learning we live about 1.5 hours from each other we came to the conclusion that Sandy would find a new home with me. I've tried my luck at getting 3 other sandcasts over the last 10 years, but they never worked out. This one fell nicely into place.
    KIMG0157.JPG
    I work with computers as my day job (3-D designer for stainless steel pharma-process equipment), so the binary engine serial just fits well with me. It has current NY state registration and the transfer was easy and smooth.

    The old owner transported it back to his place, where I could come get it on Monday. My dad came along with me to pick it up, it was 12 years ago we started saving old Hondas. Here we are with it loaded up in our truck.
    11823.jpeg

    This thread will grow slowly, and I will add pictures of various aspects of the bike as we go along. I have slowly gathered parts for K0 750's over the years thinking some day I'll find one.

    Here we go!
    #1
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  2. ADVDucs33

    ADVDucs33 Been here awhile

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    KIMG0163.JPG

    Followed us home in traditional fashion for an old Honda-two tug straps and no tailgate.

    Got it up on my lift once we got home and it sat there a couple days while I unpacked from the weekend at Mid-Ohio. We had a lot less stuff then when we went out, so it was a fast clean up. This bike, a 2000 RC51 and a 1982 MB5 followed us home.

    KIMG0153 (1).JPG
    The RC was going to be a fun rider, but the Sandy project means it's going for sale after the weekend. I'll revive the MB5 though as its pretty complete.
    #2
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  3. ADVDucs33

    ADVDucs33 Been here awhile

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    Here are a few pictures of things on Sandy that I'm wanting to confirm are right.

    Double cut fender is correct for the bike and the chrome is rider grade, I'm happy. This little rubber thing though, was that a tag left on from dealer prep/set up that was never removed? Or did the owner add it just for fast reference?
    KIMG0166.JPG

    This all looks correct here. Solid Adjusters, no hole in them. and number 8's.
    KIMG0167.JPG

    Black top on the shocks, which are nice & usable. Odd thing about the blinker mounting though. Wires follow up and are routed right, but I've only seen them on black brackets before, not directly into the frame/rear fender. The way the frame paint / patina is would suggest it hasn't had the bracket mounted blinkers.
    KIMG0168.JPG

    A nice, clean wrinkle tank. Only issue here is the spray bomb paint. No ugly dents though.
    KIMG0170.JPG

    I've saved some original pipes from swap meets or parts finds over the years. I figured if I ever got a hold of a sand cast, it would be a later number one or I'd save a nice early die cast if my search never yielded a Sandy. Well, the pipes I have are HM300's (and one HM341 still) which are not correct for this bike but will work to check and test the engine.
    KIMG0171.JPG
    Must find some original unmarked pipes. It will probably be one at a time, but I'm a patient builder. Rider quality is what I'm after, as I think this bike deserves a freshen up versus a frame off restore. Other big piece that is missing is the duck tail seat.

    Opinions on color?
    #3
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  4. VX Rider

    VX Rider Long timer

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    Red and Black

    or

    The Blue and Gold pattern from that year
    #4
  5. wpbarlow

    wpbarlow Long timer Supporter

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    I'm curious- how did they first get called "sand cast" when they aren't?
    #5
  6. ADVDucs33

    ADVDucs33 Been here awhile

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    I've wondered that one as well, but once a name sticks it's glued. Kinda like people talking about their debit card PIN Number.... it's just PIN :photog

    Color...

    The bike's headlight ears were painted over with black with under that, candy blue. The side covers are original and faded, candy red. Tank was stripped and painted, no sign of original paint on top or underside. The ears are the hardest parts to remove of the 3 areas...but...

    My weakness is how the Brighton Bike from early '69 was candy gold. Plus, some period USA adverts had candy gold listed as an optional color, but I haven't seen any sand casts in that color, and no cb750's until the late K0's/K1's. Hmmm.

    I love candy gold, but would it hurt the bikes historical sense? Or help it because everyone and their uncles have repainted them all red or blue?

    Do any of the old timers ever recall a candy gold sandcast?
    #6
  7. wpbarlow

    wpbarlow Long timer Supporter

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    Since it's not the original paint, once it's repainted, I don't think the overall value or historical sense is hurt that much because it can always be painted again. If the original color is unknown, one color is as valid as the next.

    So if you really like the Candy Gold, do it.

    Or install later model Candy Gold pieces and leave the dilemma to the next person :lol3
    #7
  8. VX Rider

    VX Rider Long timer

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    The candy Gold....is very pretty

    Or maybe the new Pearl White they put on some models
    #8
  9. rooster4321

    rooster4321 Adventurer

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    Is the sand cast term In referenced to single overhead cam vs dual overhead cam
    #9
  10. wpbarlow

    wpbarlow Long timer Supporter

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    No- it has to do with how the engine cases (in this application) are made. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_casting

    Honda wasn't sure how successful the CB750 would be (funny in retrospect) so they built the initial batch of bikes in a non large scale production manner. They used a process called gravity casting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_mold_casting.

    Somehow, the early CBs got named sand cast.
    #10
  11. zzzak

    zzzak Long timer Supporter

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  12. ADVDucs33

    ADVDucs33 Been here awhile

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    I did find this on the net. A French Sandy, candy gold with a gold strip like used on the '69 bikes.
    Candy Gold '69.jpg

    And this, sorry for crappy resolution.
    Period adcb750.jpg
    It's an early 1969 US advert. Has gold listed as a color.

    So that's settled.

    Should I see if this old girl will run?
    Gotta get my little helper involved...
    #12
  13. ADVDucs33

    ADVDucs33 Been here awhile

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    Patrick is 20 months old and just loves bikes (beepbeeps). He's around them often but has really taking a liking to this one. He walks in the garage and over to the lift then says "ooooo my beep beep!" now.
    12039.jpeg

    Sweet child aside and into bed, I went into the shop last night. Removed all expensive and / or not needed parts to check though wiring, get a nice spark, top off fluids...
    Lights, electric starter motion and action! She lives!
    KIMG0176.JPG

    After checking valves, the carbs cleaned, new plugs, and a battery into the hole she awoke rather easily. I usually don't adjust anything on a bike until after they run, usually those settings are still good if a bike was parked and no monkey has fiddled with it. This bike was clear of monkeys, so it was a fast firing up. Ran about 15 seconds, gentle revs with a twist to 3k near the end and shut down.

    Ahhhh. Off to bed.
    #13
  14. motomike14

    motomike14 Thumper Crusader Supporter

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    The name "sandcast" refers to the early production models where Honda actually produced the cases before permanent casting dies were completed. The "sand" actually is a reference to the finish of the cases, which looked more like sandpaper than the smooth finish of your average case set.

    The process to produce the cases was gravity fed, rather than pressure fed of the more typical die-casting.

    Few other little tidbits; clutch cover had 10 screws as opposed to 11 for later models, 4 individual throttle cables, side covers had 3 "vented" slots (and looked way cooler). The earliest ones (around 1000) were also hand assembled in California and carefully distributed as Honda wasn't sure where the market was for the bike. Obviously, the rest is history.

    CB750 aficionados commonly refer to the early models as "single stick" vs the second generation "twin stick" models that came around in 1979 as the K models.
    #14
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  15. ADVDucs33

    ADVDucs33 Been here awhile

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    Progress over the last couple days has been minimal. I dug through my totes of stuff I take to swap meets, the storage shed and toolbox. Found a grab handle off a late '70, the right screw for the gauge bands into the triple clamp, nice right fork ear reflector, passenger footrests and "8" bolts and a much nicer flat side oil tank. If the date code on the oil tank is in the May '69 range, sweet, have to look tonight.

    I located my engine casings casting date, it was may 1st '69.

    More important things I am missing though...My rear fender is a 3 holer, not 2 like the early sandy's had. Also missing the left mounted horn...and somebody swapped the left switch assembly out with a newer one. Early sandcasts had mirrors with 11mm threaded studs, so the original left switch assembly/clutch perch would have had an 11mm hole for the mirror, I have a 10mm hole.

    Do I tap it to 11mm and call it a day, or go ask the unicorn eating skittles next to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow outside if he has one I could have? (just rained & suns out so I have a chance, right) :D
    #15
  16. ADVDucs33

    ADVDucs33 Been here awhile

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    So I bought some plugs, I get em by the box. Installed 4 new ones into Sandy, she was very receptive of the new sparkers. Starts in one kick or tap of the button now.
    KIMG0177.JPG

    Checked over my gas tank, and found a pretty rare item. Short neck petcock is there, and in working condition! I'm doing well so far.
    KIMG0178.JPG

    Lastly, meet Ol' Mr Zero. A '70 that I stumbled on locally. It's a turd, but has a few handy items Sandy will enjoy.

    KIMG0181.JPG

    -Correct ignition switch mount and hardware
    -the correct DID front wheel (Sandy's wheel has a nasty big, hammered up dent from wayyyy back before I was even born)
    -a straight left ear
    -side stand
    -passenger brackets
    -Great unicorn top triple clamp (a spare as back up)

    The bike sat for over 30 years with no spark plugs in it...outside next to a farmers barn. So, yea there's that.
    But, I got it for free! Kinda. I traded a small fiberglass cafe seat I had in my stash for it.

    I will strip Ol' Zero down, save the frame and the good pieces for a later build down the road. It's straight and clean.
    #16
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  17. ADVDucs33

    ADVDucs33 Been here awhile

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    The weather was nice this weekend, so I cracked out the wrenches and in short order Mr. Zero turned into many pieces.
    KIMG0192.JPG

    My boy was a bit confused by the disappearance of Mr. Zero, what did you do to that beep beep dada?
    KIMG0193.JPG
    When I drained the oil, eerrr um water then oil out of the engine, I won't need to split the cases, the hope for this engine is nill. zilch. nada.
    Approx 2 qts water, then the approx 4 qts of brown/black oil and did it stink! I'll pop the covers off and save them, maybe the case halves too but I'm sure internals are toasted. Bye-bye Mr.Zero! (Frame will turn into a road bike again someday, there was no damage to any of it, still stock and clean)

    Useful parts for Sandy were set on the lift next to her. Time to get back to the meat and potatoes of this thread- Sandy!
    #17
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  18. ADVDucs33

    ADVDucs33 Been here awhile

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    Small update for the project.

    -I got a plug type key with the correct code for my recessed lock, $29 off eBay.

    -I was digging through a box of parts that was from a '81 cb650 I dismantled 3 years ago. Looking for a horn, passenger pegs and mirrors for a dumpster build I'm doing (named it snot rocket).

    Whats this? Holy, hold my sandwich!!!!
    KIMG0235.JPG
    Found a left hand horn for Sandy in the box!!

    * Little fact on Sand casts, Only approx. 3,900 of the first cb750 had the horn mount and horns bracket on the left side. The plastic part of the horn was also grey, as well as the wire sheathing. Brake line conflicts led Honda to moving it to the right for the remainder of production through 1978.

    Mounted up and it works perfectly too. Even had a couple 8 bolts in my hardware bins.
    KIMG0236.JPG
    It was a woo hoo moment.
    #18
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  19. wpbarlow

    wpbarlow Long timer Supporter

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    Here's some inspiration

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  20. Andrew

    Andrew Optimus Primer Administrator Super Moderator

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    1969 was an epochal; year. Most news stories looking back have missed the significance of the SOHC CB750. Have fun!
    #20