DR350 Thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by leonphelps, May 16, 2007.

  1. Greg Bender

    Greg Bender Long timer

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    Just be prepared to go back and forth with them. If what they offer seems unfair, provide evidence from local ads, dealers, etc. and make your case.

    Regards,

    Gregory Bender
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  2. dbarale

    dbarale Squiddly slow

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    Just bumping this to see if you have found any new info? I need to replace the chain guide on my 96S and I am wondering if I should stick with stock, or go with something else?

    7142C88F-1502-4598-A0B4-A2759C7DAE1E.jpeg
  3. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    The mount doesn't matter. Shifted for big sprocket or in line for smaller, it accepts the same guide. Unless you plan on changing your sprocket size significantly, you will continue to use the same mount.

    As for the guide itself dont get another OE dr350 one. It will just break again. I forget which suzuki one I ended getting:rmx? But it has the same bolt pattern but an alunium outer plate. I recall it being pretty obvious when looking at eBay pictures.
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  4. Greg Bender

    Greg Bender Long timer

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  5. Flipmode513

    Flipmode513 Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the advice. That’s what I did I immediately went online and found bikes of the same year with similar miles to use as reference in case they try to low ball me.
  6. Flipmode513

    Flipmode513 Been here awhile

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    That chain guide, will it stop my kickstand from rubbing the swing arm? I just realized that my kick stand is rubbing the swing arm pretty severely. I dont have one of those chain guides, I have the two holes for mounting the chain guide. When I bought the bike there was a mark on the swing arm where it used to rub in the past but it hasn’t since I owned the bike ( ‘99 dirt model) I also noticed that the kickstand feels kind of loose. I looked at it and noticed that there is what appears to be a bolt on each slide instead of a nut and a bolt which doesn’t really make sense. I was thinking if i tighten just the outboard one maybe that will fix the problem by pulling the kickstand outward while it is up. I was also thinking of putting zip ties on the swing arm where the rubbing is happening but that seems like a “ghetto” fix considering it didn’t rub before so that means I can make it not rub again.
  7. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    Post a picture of this dual bolt kickstand mount.

    A chain guide will not prevent the kickstand from rubbing the swingarm.

    Kic stand rubs cuase of 2 reasons. 1 the forked portion of the kickstand has spread. Remove pound together and install. 2. The bolt/hole interface has worn. Not much you can do about this. New shoulder bolt is easy. But the welding up the hole and re drilling is not.
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  8. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    As above: chain guide and kickstand rubbing are unrelated issues.

    If the kickstand does not rub now, someone either fixed the worn pivot (welded up and reshaped) or did some ghetto fix like bending the mount or using an odd type of bolt. This is a very common issue and will happen to all bikes eventually unless you find some previously unknown way to keep the pivot lubed without allowing grit into it.
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  9. GtownDean

    GtownDean n00b

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    My dirt model DR250 was pretty loose at the kickstand mount, I put in a shim washer between the stand and the mount and it helped out greatly, it moved the stand out to where it was probably supposed to be originally and gives plenty of clearance from the swing arm.
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  10. thump!

    thump! Adventurer

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    A drop of oil at the kickstand pivot each time you lube the chain greatly extends its service life.
  11. V-Stormer

    V-Stormer Bush Basher

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    I've read some posts recently regarding clutch issues where the it's hard to get into neutral at a stop and in some cases the bike creeps forward in neutral. As others have mentioned the most likely culprit are the thrust washers behind and in front of the clutch basket. I had the same issue just recently when installing a taller primary drive, but to the extreme where I couldn't even start the bike when hot because it would stall even with the clutch disengaged. Because of this, I learned more about the DR350 clutch than I knew previously and wanted to share my findings.

    The clutch basket is fixed to the crankshaft, so it's always spinning while the engine is running. When the clutch is disengaged (pulled in at the lever), the clutch plates separate and disconnect the friction link between the hub that is attached to the transmission input shaft and the clutch basket. At that point, the basket needs to run completely freely. Although clutch discs not separating completely when the clutch is disengaged can also be an issue (usually with aftermarket kits), the most common issue is wear and/or deformation of the thrust washers. Here's why . . .

    The basket rides on a spacer/bearing that is exactly 29mm long. The steel gear center of the basket that the spacer rides against has a depth of approx. 28.75mm. That means there is clearance of only 10 thou or less. That's not much, but it's enough for the basket to ride against the thrust washers with a film of oil between. It's also enough that when the engine heats up, it can tolerate the metal expansion and still allow the basket to run freely. Almost all of the forces are on the spacer/bearing but the thrust washers are hardened to resist wear and deformation.

    All it will take is a very small amount of wear, deformation or over torquing to create friction between the thrust washer and the basket which results in the basket always putting some constant forward pressure on the transmission input shaft. So when you're stopped and in 1st or 2nd gear with the clutch disengaged, you can't find neutral because it wants to jump into the next gear or won't move out of the current gear due to that constant pressure. It doesn't have to be much. Ideally, when you are in that situation, the basket should be running so freely that the transmission shaft is completely stationary with absolutely no pressure on it.

    Thrust washers and lock washers are very inexpensive, so my recommendation is to have a set on hand and be ready to replace them. I just purchased some (3 sets actually) and what I noticed is that due to reusing the original ones, there was some very minor wear marks not only on the washers, but also on the basket center where the washers rub against. It's amazing how little it takes to cause an issue. The bearing/spacer is so hard it's unlikely to be worn, but check that also and replace it too if you see any wear. It should be exactly 29mm long and smooth on all surfaces.

    I noticed when the new thrust washers arrived, they had milling marks on them. This got me thinking that although there is much less force on the thrust washers, they are still a "bearing surface" and hence should be as smooth and shiny as the bearing/spacer is, which they definitely are not.

    So I got the idea of taking superfine abrasive glued to glass (that I used for flattening/resurfacing the valve head and cylinder head) to take the milling marks off at least one side of the thrust washers, and to smooth the matching surfaces on the basket so even when dry, there was almost no resistance between them and when oiled pretty much no resistance at all. When assembling, the torque range of the hub nut is 40 - 60 nm. My feeling is 40 nm should be max. This is because if you apply too much torque, you're now risking deformation of the washer (think pushing it into a cone shape). It takes very little when there is only 10 thou to play with where you can cause friction even when cold, but much more likely once the bike gets up to operating temp. (Ever notice that finding neutral is easier when the bike first starts up, but more difficult when it's hot?) So I worked up from 30 nm to 40 nm, checking free play as I went and stopped at 40 nm, the lowest number in the range. The nut is locked on with a bent tab lock washer, so there is no chance of it coming loose even with the lower torque number. (I bent two tabs just to be safe)

    Now, because the basket is meshed with the primary gear when it's installed, you won't be able to spin the basket to check for free play while it's in place and you can't put the primary gear on after the basket because the teeth go behind the basket a bit. However, before you install the clutch plates, you can put the bike in neutral and spin the hub to see if there is any friction or resistance. Without the plates in, the effect is the same as trying to spin the basket to check for free play. Doing this, I felt no resistance whatsoever and the movement was super smooth even though I couldn't really palpate any axial movement on the basket when pushing it inward or pulling it toward me. This to me seemed ideal, so I buttoned it all up.

    On my test ride, the shifting was butter smooth with a "snick, snick" feel when shifting between gears. Better than I ever remember on this bike. When at a stop in 1st or 2nd getting into neutral was just as easy with no resistance whatsoever. Just an easy "snick", even when the bike was at full operating temp.

    So my advice is spend $15 or less on a set of thrust washers and a new lock washer just to have them on hand the next time you have the clutch apart, polish one side of the thrust washers and the mating surfaces of the basket (being sure not to cause unevenness of the surfaces). The abrasive should be super-fine and result in a polished surface. Polishing the thrust washers has no effect on tolerances, but polishing the basket does. Polishing of the basket surfaces done properly should take less than one thou off. Don't be tempted to file or grind the gear on the rear of the basket because you could change the planer surface and create an uneven surface or create too much space and now the basket will be able to move too much axially on the shaft and create premature wear on the gears and thrust washers. Torque the hub nut to the lower number of the range and spin the hub with the bike in neutral to be sure not to feel any resistance at all. Finish putting the clutch together, button things up and enjoy shifting the way it was intended to be, and should have been from the factory.
  12. dbarale

    dbarale Squiddly slow

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    I am trying to make my own. This could fail miserably...

    B88ECCDF-9929-4581-9291-F9231352D03D.jpeg AF6AEF7B-7F8E-463E-86DA-B2AEE08EA233.jpeg
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  13. mentolio

    mentolio Been here awhile

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    Looks good so far, looking forward to seeing the finished piece. I've been meaning to give making my own a whirl, just haven't gotten around to it yet.
  14. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    Looks awesome.
    You can get the plastic pretty cheap. I buy sheets of various thickness off of ebay. Very easy to work with too, cuts and drills like wood. Most types of plastic will work, i have used alot of high density poly ethlean (hdpe).
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  15. Anonawesome

    Anonawesome Scenic Rider

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    The spacer doesn't really wear. This was my test after many miles. It had also been through every different torque of the clutch nut I tried, and even running the bike out of oil. If any spacer would be worn it'd be mine I feel. Definitely replace the washers whenever you're in there though.
    Yes 29ft-lbs is regarded as the spec to shoot for. I've tried that, torquing to max, under-torquing, and everything in between. Always comes back after a few hundred miles. Faster if you torque it over 29ft-lbs for sure.

    Another theorized cause is wear in the aluminum "fingers" on the clutch basket. The outer "splines" of the clutch plates wear into the fingers over time, and when you pull the clutch, the plates can't move enough and don't release. There was an aftermarket billet clutch basket created to try to solve this, but they stopped production a while back. Filing them smooth again didn't solve my particular issue, but someone somewhere may have had it work for them.

    I disagree with "Don't be tempted to file or grind the gear on the rear of the basket", but use a bench sander or sandpaper on a table with an an even surface. So many people have reported good results by doing so. In my experience, NOTHING stops the spacer from spinning on the washers and creating wear grooves, and the more space you have to compensate for that, the better, as long as it's a few thousandths, and not whole millimeters, though that's hard to do with a hardened gear.

    Here is what I think was the first guy to try it.

    This subject has been hounded to death over the years, with no "catch-all" magic solution. I don't want to be a dick and say "yeah give it time" because maybe just the polishing was what you needed and it'll be fine now. Some bikes don't even experience it, and nothing solves it for my bike in particular. Unfortunately much of the knowledge over the years is buried and can be hard for new owners to find.

    Also I made this graphic a while back which comes in handy when trying to explain the issue to people.

    [​IMG]
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  16. thump!

    thump! Adventurer

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    I fought the dragging clutch for years on several DR350s. I was able to minimize it but it always came back. In the end I just gave up. It was, however, one of the reasons I moved on from the 350 to the 650.
  17. markk900

    markk900 Been here awhile

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    Sorry in advance for a really really stupid question, but its now too cold to work on this so I have to just think about it: after reinstallation of the carb on my 95 SE, the following occurs: starts right up and idles fine, but *any* thottle kills it immediately. I made no adjustments when I took the carb out - just cleaning out crap and old gas. Took it off again today and visual inspection confirms no dirt or crap in the carb, float height still as before, O rings all in good shape and needle valve free and working......Could this symptom be something stupid like the vacuum port not sealing correctly (I run a raptor gas tap and the port *looked* properly sealed but.....)? I can't do any debugging as its freezing outside but want to know if there's anything specific to look for that might be obvious. Bike was running great prior to sitting for a couple of months (due to life), the cleanout was to ensure there was no bad gas etc.
  18. V-Stormer

    V-Stormer Bush Basher

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    I think we are more in agreement than not. :yum When I said "Don't be tempted to grind or file", I meant just that . . . no hand or bench grinders or hand files. Doing things by hand it's more likely that the planar surface (90 degrees to the shaft) will be compromised and become slanted or uneven. Use the method we both described, dead flat surface and fine or super-fine abrasive being careful to keep it totally flat against the abrasive surface. Just don't get carried away and take too much off. I think a thou or two would be safe, but once you start going over that, there could be more axial movement than designed and it might start causing other premature wear like additional sideways movement of gear teeth. That may or may not show up for a long time, but my approach is to minimize that as much as possible.

    We also agree that the bearing/spacer is unlikely to wear and based on your experience that appears to be the case. I think they could have used even harder thrust washers, but we're stuck with what we have. Although, something needs to be sacrificial or other parts could wear, so replacing washers is the least expensive and easiest to deal with. I don't presume the polishing will totally fix things and prevent them from wearing, but in the meantime it will hopefully make things run smoother and that's what I'm seeing on my bike now. Next time I'm in there though, I'll report back on the state of things with the polished thrust washers and see if it had any positive affect on wear. I also wrote that post up for the exact reason that new owners might have a heck of a time finding the historical info in this thread.

    I did file the aluminum fingers on my basket because that definitely contributes to more friction on the clutch lever, which why I did it. But I can see how it might also prevent good separation of the discs. I found with the Barnett Dirt Digger clutch discs that the tabs seemed to be quite tight anyway, so filing made more sense. I did that on the previous basket and it helped.

    That diagram is a nice visual. I'll try to add some photos to my previous post later today. :beer
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  19. abraham_lincoln

    abraham_lincoln Adventurer

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    The DR does good in the snow! Took it up in the mountains yesterday and crossed into the freezing elevations. Also came across and Immix rack on sale recently so hopefully that should be arriving in the following weeks, I plan to put a dry bag on it for some of the longer trips ahead

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    My 350 has the dragging clutch issue too but it goes away after the bike is fully warmed up. When it's cold I have to 1) hold the front brake, 2) give the bike some throttle then 3) shift into 1st which forces the plates to separate. I have to ride for a good 5 minutes or so before I can shift from N into 1st without it lurching but after that it functions flawlessly for the rest of the day. A minor annoyance that can cause a stall at the first couple stop signs if I'm not careful but not a huge deal since it goes away relatively quick

    I had this same exact issue on my XL200R once. What turned out to be my issue was I somehow knocked the c-clip for the needle loose while cleaning the carb and it popped off while I was riding down the road. It would start up fine but the moment I gave it any throttle it'd instantly die. The slide would rise with the throttle but the needle was staying put in the jet causing it not to get the fuel it needed. I would assume you may have a similar issue
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  20. V-Stormer

    V-Stormer Bush Basher

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    I haven't come across that situation to that degree yet. I know with my Barnett Dirt Digger clutch I had a similar thing at first, but to much less of a degree and it went away after it broke in. Cold oil is thicker so if you're talking almost freezing temps, then I could see that being a contributor. If you add that factor to discs that might be slightly thicker than OEM, I could more easily see it developing a stiffer startup situation like you describe. But if it's OEM discs and not really cold weather starts, something doesn't seem right there. Synthetic oil might help, but if you're already using that, then not sure what it could be.