DR650 Cush Drive Bearings

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by BergDonk, Apr 7, 2011.

?

How's your > 96 DR650 Cush Drive?

  1. Lateral movement of sprocket 0-1 mm

  2. Lateral movement of sprocket 1-3 mm

  3. Lateral movement of sprocket 3-6 mm

  4. Lateral movement of sprocket > 6 mm

  5. Bearings changed @ < 5,000 kms

  6. Bearings changed @ < 10,000 kms

  7. Bearings changed @ < 15,000 kms

  8. Bearings changed @ < 20,000 kms

  9. Bearings changed @ > 20,000 kms

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  1. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    Hi Guys,

    I've has some issues with my cush drive bearings and I'm trying to find out more. Most seem to get 10-20,000 kms form them, but I don't.

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15608068&postcount=125

    How much lateral movement do you get when you try to move your sprocket teeth sideways?

    How many kms do you get to a bearing?

    Thanks
    Steve
    #1
  2. Adv Grifter

    Adv Grifter on the road o'dreams

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    To check lateral movement does the wheel stay on the bike, everything tightened up? Chain on?
    My lateral movement lessened with new Cush Drive rubbers. But that did not last all that long. I'm on my 2nd set of Cush rubbers. Bearings seem fine.

    I have two sets of wheels. Both have over 30,000 miles. Bearings all seem OK to me. They "feel" smooth, no roughness or looseness, plenty of grease. I clean and grease them best I can at each tire change. Not much rain riding or water crossings.

    I'm thinking of changing ALL wheel bearings before a long (10,000 mile) up coming ride.

    Would you recommend the sealed bearings you are using? Or standard Suzuki bearings? Is it possible Suzuki had a reason to use the open ended bearing they used? Or are they just saving money? Normally their engineering is pretty sound ... and I've not heard of very many bearing failures on these bikes .... but there have been a few.

    Jammin Jay, riding thorugh S. America had problems ... but he put in cheap Chinese bearings from Pro Cycle ("ALL BALLS" brand). They failed in under 5000 miles, IIRC. His wheel bearings were fine on his bike, but someone suggested he change them out "for good measure" before his long trip. Too bad he used All Balls. I've heard lots of bad stories among dirt bike riders here in California about these. All Junk.

    Can't do the poll ... as I've not measured anything yet ... and I'm over your mileages by triple.

    Any thoughts? :ear
    #2
  3. ADVJake

    ADVJake ***** dweller

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    Mine failed at 30,000km
    Had my DR from new and i had to get the bike towed while on a trip in Tasmania.
    #3
  4. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    Looks like I did mine at about 30,000km.
    That's about 70,000km ago.

    I do the brake side one more regularly though.
    #4
  5. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    Yeah, my thinking was to check with everything ready to go, axles tight etc. As I've noted elsewhere, it concerns me that the bearing isn't centred on the sprocket, which puts torsional loads on nthe bearings that they aren't really designed for.

    My old 501 Berg uses double sealed bearings and no extra seals on the front wheel and its never had any crap inside the bearings. I have always ended up using double sealed bearings in the past on all my fleet with success. the single sealed bearings Suzuki uses in the cush drive seem to be setting themselves up for failure after any water crossing. Having said that, the replacement lasted less time than the original.

    I've also heard negative stories about the All Balls and Moose bearings.

    I shall investigate alternative bearings and see what I can come up with, I actually like a wider one and perhaps eliminate the seal. Dunno?

    Steve
    #5
  6. ohiofathead

    ohiofathead Been here awhile

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    I just replaced my wheel bearings at 6000 miles. Both the cush drive bearings were full of crap and rough. I replaced them with stock bearings, but I removed the seal from the old bearings and installed it on the new bearings so that now I have double sealed bearings.
    #6
  7. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    This is what happens when you forget to change them

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Moral of the story is if it feels loose change it (dont buy the bearing like i did and then foget to change it)
    #7
    ER70S-2 likes this.
  8. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    Is there anything on a DR650 that you haven't broken Joe?

    FWIW I went to a couple of bearing suppliers in the big smoke this week, aka Fyshwick, and came up with an SKF 3205-2RS. This is a double row bearing that has the same OD and ID, ie 52x25 as the stock 6205 but is 6.6 mm wider at 20.6 mm instead of 15 mm.

    I lathed up a new spacer to suit and installed with new cush rubbers and no seal, as there is no longer room for it. The wider bearing is now mostly under the sprocket and has close to twice the load rating, although only rated to 11 k rpm, which is still 4-5 times what it'll do.

    As long as the seal survives it'll be OK. As mentioned, my 501 has only ever relied on the bearing seal on the front wheel, and I know of many who have removed their mechanical speedo drives and ended up just relying on the bearing seal without problems.

    As I have the original spacer and a couple of new stock bearings and seals I can travel with stock spares and/or a 3205. The seals in the SKF 3205 are difficult to remove without damage, so I will rely on the factory in Austria where it was made for lubrication.

    The other downside is the cost. The 3205 was $75 vs $12 for a 6205, ouch!

    Steve
    #8
  9. DuckWV

    DuckWV Been here awhile

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    I got about 15,000 miles out of mine, then one long ride with the chain too tight did them in :baldy
    #9
  10. H14

    H14 Live, Laugh, Love.

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    This happened to me at 15,000 kms.


    [​IMG]

    Close call on the swingarm

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    I had some lateral movement in mine but so did my buddies DRs so we thought it was OK. They all all have new cush drive rubbers and bearings(SKF) now.:lol3
    #10
  11. The Breeze

    The Breeze Been here awhile

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    Mine failed at 26kms.......I got a flat on the rear.....was really pissed......when I was about to remove the rear wheel, I noticed all the "play" in the hub:huh:huh. Caught it just in time! Bearing had just started to go.....easy fix at the Suzuki shop ~ 1 mile away:clap Sometimes getting a flat is a good thing:lol3:lol3
    #11
  12. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    Since this post I modified the seal a bit, thinned it down by grinding off the tapered bit and added a retainer to keep it from falling out.

    [​IMG]

    Also got a second hub from the wrecker.

    The double row bearing lasted 10,000 kms before lateral play appeared, and it also seemed to develop the play overnight. I'm now on the original hub with another SKF double row bearing as pictured above with about 3,000 kms and still tight. Sourced some cheaper bearings on eBay from the UK and will just keep a hub ready to go when I detect play.

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16813733&postcount=180

    I cannot figure out why I seem to be chewing these things up when most don't.
    #12
  13. Phreaky Phil

    Phreaky Phil Long timer

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    I reckon it needs a bearing on the inside end of the cushdrive as its the inside end thats unsupported. That would hold the cushdrive square on the axle and not rely on the rubbers to limit movement. Havent pulled the wheel off to see if its possible though ?
    #13
  14. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    I like your thinking, but it won't happen without lots of mods. Probably need to make a billet one with 2 bearings.

    Steve
    #14
  15. Phreaky Phil

    Phreaky Phil Long timer

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    Have you looked into any of the aftermarket hubs with cush drives to see how they are set up. ?
    #15
  16. ADV8

    ADV8 Long timer

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    The cush drive rubbers do nothing axially to support the inner part of the carrier.
    It is as before.
    Check the axial play with the wheel in place and the axle tightened but with the cush drive rubbers removed.
    That will show any excess clearance between the carrier and wheel hub spigot.
    I will even add it might be worth mounting the wheel on the axle (in a vice with soft jaws) and using a dial gauge check the wheel spigot (that supports the carrier on the inner side) outer ring for run out that might be being transferred to the bearing.

    Many Suzukis including TL/SV 1000's and Hayabusa's use this same single outer bearing with the spigot inner support with no problems.
    My own DR is on the third bearing in 42000 kms but was posting as far back as 08 to keep an eye on it and at the minimum change it to a dual seal instead of the single item which most other Suzukis have also.
    Which has nothing to do with re greasing bearings as suggested recently,it is just bean counters at work. :lol3


    [​IMG]
    #16
    Motozark likes this.
  17. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    I haven't, but no doubt there are alternate wheels out there that could be adapted. I seem to recall that others have fitted KTM LC4 wheels when doing an 18" conversion.

    These are not something I've paid attention to over the years because its not been an issue for me with my road and enduro bikes.

    I was talking to Craig Hartley (Dalby Moto) at the TK ride last year and he mentioned that they can't keep the bearings and rubbers in the 660 Teneres operational for more than 10,000 kms. I haven't checked the 660 thread to see what others here reckon.

    There are aftermarket cush drive hubs available targeted for sumo use, but exxy and would they be any better in this application?

    Steve
    #17
  18. ManiacalChicken

    ManiacalChicken Adventurer

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    Maybe try a new axle? It's weird that it is the same set-up as all those other bike's and not for any of them to have a problem, it is just to many for it not to be a major issue???
    #18
  19. sagedrifter

    sagedrifter Southern Explorer

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    I figured my bearings would be crap after years of water crossings and sitting outside its whole life. The suckers look perfect though, the grease is clean. My chain was too tight from the dealer, I loosened that up and all has been fine since 2007. I had to change the stock chain out at 13K due to rust. I lived on the beach for a year and the rust got bad with some kinking issues.

    I check the bearings at every tire change, my replacements are collecting dust though. I finally just changed the cush bearing around 15,000 miles, it still looked good. I have new cush rubbers ready to go in on the next tire change. Not sure if I need them, but I'll know soon. I hope they smooth things out like I've heard.
    #19
  20. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    #20