DR650: Intiminators (fork valving) install & review

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by eakins, May 27, 2009.

  1. Motor 1

    Motor 1 Been here awhile

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    I have put the Ricor rear & front on an '07 DR650 (3,100miles).........:clap Absolutely pleased w/them. Nice planted feel in a curve w/the foot peg almost to the asphalt (tires are MT 21's:eek1). As some have already said, the 'wallow/pogo' effect is gone and the bike just plain feels easier to manage. Just had it in the dirt a bit but 'the feel' is very good! Ricor seems to have hit the nail on the head w/this product. Thanks Ricor and to the folks here for all the invaluable information :D
    #61
  2. hoyks

    hoyks Tightass KLR rider

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    '08 + KLR also has no drain plug so it is easier just to remove the leg.
    #62
  3. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    I had to measure up the ID of my TT350 41mm forks so Brian could find the closest match.
    Ended up with Triumph Scrambler ones.
    Revalved the stack from 1x0.13", 2x0.12" to 1x0.13", 1x0.12" and 1x0.10" shims via a bit of playing...

    More brake dive than the DR but more supple. Exactly as I wanted it as it's my "extreme" bike :evil

    Now to do something about the rear shock that's got no oil and only gas left...
    #63
  4. Ed@Ford

    Ed@Ford Long timer

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    Mile Maker: Just ordered the Ricors for my '09 KLR. Then read all this thread. Did you do any of the fork preload measuring? And you shortened the internal spacer 1/2"....or did you make new from PVC pipe? Did you put in 19.8 oz like the KLR manual sez for clean empty forks? My goal is to get rid of the nosedive.....Thanks
    #64
  5. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    You'll be sweet with the stock amount of oil.
    Shorten or make a spacer the length of the stocker minus the thickness of the Intiminator.

    Although on the DR it's designed to work with the stock length spacer.
    #65
  6. Ed@Ford

    Ed@Ford Long timer

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    Thanks for the info on Intiminators for KLR. I purchased some 1" Schedule 40 PVC pipe. I'll cut spacers out of that 1/2" shorter than the stock spacers. Cost $2...if I want to increase preload, I can make some longer ones, or re-use the stock ones uncut. Seems like stock preload is about 15mm. Sure are some rave results for these things in KLR's as well as DR's.
    #66
  7. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    I'm also running Triumph Scrambler ones in my little Yam TT350.
    #67
  8. Benesesso

    Benesesso Long timer

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    In other words you had the huge benefit of having removed the damper tubes and enlarging and drilling more compression holes BEFORE you installed the Intim. goodies, right? Could that be why your forks felt so "plush"? W/o the damper tube hole mods., most tubes cannot flow enough oil on big sharp bumps, even with 2 1/2 weight oil. If the damper tube holes are too small, it doesn't mean diddley what's above, because the oil has to flow thru them BEFORE it gets up to the spring-loaded valves.

    With more tube holes added and enlarged, you can use heavier oil for more rebound damping if desired. Try that with the stock holes and you'll feel the jolts. Neither brand of spring-loaded valves have any effect on rebound.

    I have to wonder if you had taken the time to change the spring tension on the Race Tech emulators to optimize them for your conditions. Having put Race Tech emulators in about 8 bikes I never had any problems with "plushness" or front-end dive, once they were set right. The key is to add and enlarge the damper tube holes, unless you ride on real smooth streets all the time. :doh
    #68
  9. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    Sounds like you've never used Intiminators.

    There's RaceTech Emulators and YSS PD valves in the spring loaded camp and Intiminators in the shim stack, no spring-loading camp.
    #69
  10. Benesesso

    Benesesso Long timer

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    Nope, never seen one. How much do they cost? Also have never seen the insides of a Suzuki DR fork. But I do know something about physics and fluid flow. You?
    #70
  11. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    Yep, I've seem them and seen the insides of DR forks.
    Physics, yes.
    Fluid flow, only from glass vessels.

    They cost about 50% more than Emulators over here but you don't need to get springs as well.
    #71
  12. Benesesso

    Benesesso Long timer

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    You don't need new springs with emulators. It's so easy to make them stiffer by cutting coils off. The number of coils (called active coils) in a given spring has a big influence on the spring rate. Cutting a few off, especially from the close-spaced end if there's a difference, will stiffen it. Spacers made from either steel or PVC tubing takes up the slack.

    Here's a neat spring rate calculator for non-progressive springs.

    http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/coilspringrate.htm

    So, let's add things up. Using adjustable R/T emulators and removing the compression-flow restrictions of stock damper tubes gives you freedom from sharp bump jolts. You also get the ability to vary rebound damping via using different weight oil, and you get lots of anti-dive as well. Cutting a few coils off gives stiffer springs, and it's easy to cut, reinstall and try them on the road/dirt and cut another coil off if needed.

    With the Intiminators you haven't done anything about the sharp bump "hydraulic locking" and since it appears you must use 5 wt. oil (lots of variation among brands) you lose the abilty to change the rebound control--all for 50% higher price. Am I missing something here? :eek1
    #72
  13. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    The ability to separate, to a large extent, chassis and wheel damping?

    I agree that the damper rod holes should be enlarged to give more oil weight rebound control but they work pretty well as is.

    The sharper the bump the better they work. A small ramp-type lip is quite heavily damped whereas a 90* edge of the same height is smoother through the bars.

    Also the installation is slightly easier than that for Emulators.
    Especially for those who are not mechanically minded.
    No removing damper rods, no drilling, no shortening springs.
    Remove cap, remove spacer, remove spring, drain oil, new oil to suit, drop Intiminator on top of damper rod, replace spring, spacer, top cap.

    I prefer the handling and ride of Intiminators to Emulators. That's why I got some for my TT after the Emulators in my old XR.

    Some don't. Usually racers or ex-racers who are used to traditional style of handling/ride.

    For me, it's better.
    #73
  14. ChromeSux

    ChromeSux Un-plated and Unscrewed

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    I put the Ricor valves in my KLR, rode it on regular maintained gravel and unmaintained gravel with washouts, rough spots etc. the bike rides real smooth, i have not rode the bike on single track or on real rough stuff, so i cant say how the bike would handle.

    I put the R/T Gold valves on the DR, it does not ride so smooth on gravel but you can get in the rough and single track and it will take whatever you throw at it, i am sure i could do some tuning and get the Gold valves to sooth out a little on rock roads, i would need to read up or ask for some tips, i just drilled the holes in the rod, installed them, put in the 10wt fluid and wanted to use that as a base line.


    Just some feedback for what its worth, i know its apples and oranges because we are talking 2 different bikes.
    #74
  15. Benesesso

    Benesesso Long timer

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    Fully agree the Intim's are much easier to install. Not sure about that "chassis damping" vs wheel damping. The damping relationship is between the wheel and the chassis--they're not separable.

    My old '86 KDX200 forks were horrible on washboard roads, even with 2 1/2 wt. oil. I felt every ridge thru the bars. Did the damper tube mod, installed the as-received emulators, put 15 wt. oil in and they were fine.

    One things for sure, stock damper tubes suck.
    #75
  16. Benesesso

    Benesesso Long timer

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    I'd try backing off the adjusting screw a half or full turn and try that. If you can determine the forks are rebounding too fast and that's what you feel, try 15 wt. oil. Be advised that fork oils vary all over the place for any advertised wt. Here's a chart. The column that counts is the 40 deg C cSt one--the col. right after the advertised wt.

    http://mahonkin.com/~milktree/motorcycles/fork-oil.html
    #76
  17. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    Oh yes they are :D

    That's the whole point of the Intiminators.

    Chassis movement where the chassis moves toward the wheel eg. cornering, bottom of dips etc. are heavily damped.

    Wheel movements where the wheel is moving toward the chassis eg. rocks etc. is lightly damped.

    Not in the classic low and high speed damping sense.

    The inertia valve opens with wheel movement uncovering more bleed holes.

    There's a shim stack controlling the normal compression damping.
    Under brakes, there's less than half the normal brake dive.

    This also means you can't pre-load the front to pop it over a log/rock as easily - dammit. But that's the only downside for me.
    #77
  18. Benesesso

    Benesesso Long timer

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    Interesting, never heard of it before. I suspect that Intimins. combined with opening up the damper tubes would be a real good way to go, but it depends on the bike. My KDX got far better with the emulators, but my KLR only got a little better. The stock KLR forks were soft and soaked up bumps pretty well, but they brake-dove badly. I think the damper holes must have been somewhat larger than those in the KDX. I didn't measure them, just enlarged and drilled new ones.

    As always, more than one way to skin a cat.
    #78
  19. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    update.

    i'm 175lbs on eibach .50 springs and the rate is too high (1.5" of sag and 2.5" is ideal 25% of total travel).

    been riding for a long bit with this setup and know finally spending time omptimizing. up till know i thought i was dialed in but the more time i've spent dialing in the rear suspension (DR Cogent shock w/ proper spring) the more i realize the front is wrong.

    been trying to figure out in the big DR thread what eibach rates should be used and .50 is looking to be ideal for someone 250lbs. i'm thinking .46-.48 at this point and i'm open to suggestions or other findings.

    thanks!
    #79
  20. trailrider383

    trailrider383 867-5309

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    I'm 195 lbs and have the .50 Eibachs. I haven't ever thought they were too stiff. That was the spring rate Kientech recommended.
    #80