Drug home my first Vespa! Lots o' pics

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by sro99, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. sro99

    sro99 one odd owl

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    Odometer is way off. Did a 1 way trip that Google maps says is 16.6km and the trip meter said was 5.5km. Anyone know how the odometer determines distance on this GTS 250? If I unhook the speedometer cable will odometer stop also?
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    #61
  2. JerryH

    JerryH To Each Their Own Supporter

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    Another misunderstanding. Yes it is miserable here. Almost entirely because of the insane summer heat. I stay out of it as much as possible, by staying in an air conditioned house and an air conditioned car. What about hose who live in places that are covered in snow and ice all winter. For many reasons I am stuck here. Sro99 got a great deal on the scooter. I was just shocked that he had to pay so much for insurance. I feel lucky in a way. Despite the fact that this place really is pure hell in the summer, I am able to own, register, and insure 11 vehicles. And we have very nice winters, which are probably a lot like some peoples summers. There is a price to be paid for living in a lot of places. It was the $$$ it cost to buy and own a vehicle in Canada that caught my attention. I certainly meant no offense to sro99, and love the scooter he has. I have the same model, and love mine too.
    #62
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  3. CaptnJim

    CaptnJim Scooter Pilot

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    Close, Jerry - you have a GT200 (w/carb), SRO has a GTS 250ie (fuel injected). I have the same model (GTS 250ie) and have been enjoying the heck out of it. I love me some fuel injection! :-)
    #63
  4. sro99

    sro99 one odd owl

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    You can dress for the cold but you can't undress enough for the heat!

    I love fuel injection and electric start. When it's 32f out I stab the button and off I go. No warm up time or choke to monkey with and no cold stumbling when you give it some throttle in the middle of a turn.
    #64
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  5. Wentwest

    Wentwest How's that work?

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    The old carb versus FI discussion. Some of us are used to fiddling with stuff to make an engine run well and you can't fiddle with FI, so it's frustrating. On the other hand it runs well without any fiddling at all, so we should shut up, I guess. My problem is I actually like messing around with engines and engines that don't need me are not very interesting.

    For years I've owned a Miata as my car. It's truly exactly what I want in a car, but as a part of a car hobby it's generally not great, because it just works. The battery lasted 16 years, I changed the spark plugs this year and the old ones were perfect, even though they were still the originals from 2001. Finally this Summer I had trouble with a misfire in one cylinder and went through diagnostic after diagnostic trying to figure out what the hell was happening. It was very tedious work and unfortunately requires taking something apart, doing whatever, putting it all back together and trying again before you find out if that was it. It ended up being a clogged fuel filter that reduced the pressure in the fuel rail to the 4th cylinder (the end of the line). I'd rather mess around with a carburetor - at least I can do it standing up.
    #65
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  6. Steve_h

    Steve_h Been here awhile

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    I am of the opinion that there are many very nice advantages to having fuel injection. But, several hundred dollars worth of sensors and electric stuff all connected to a several hundred dollar computer to replicate the operation of a well tuned $100 carb is a little over the top. It introduces a high number of points of failure, complicates wiring, requires a computer to talk to the computer to hopefully diagnose what's wrong without just throwing parts at it.

    All FI systems should be mandated to be open and fully adjustable by the owner, his mechanic, or whomever needs to make such adjustments.
    Fuel maps are pretty much universally set to make some gov't entity happy. To heck with what it does to the way the engine performs or its longevity. Most FI systems can be tuned to provide better power, smoother performance, better throttle response, etc. while still retaining all benefits like cold weather starting and running, perfect adjustment for altitude and or temperature, etc. But then it might not meet some would-be master's idea of what we are allowed to have and so, are locked down to allow no adjustment, beneficial or not.

    A good carb in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing can be quickly and cheaply adjusted to meet pretty much any requirement that may arise and requires no plethora of sensors, extra wiring, high pressure hoses, pumps, or computers to run it all.

    When the EMP comes, the carb will still work. The EFI will take long time and lots of $$$ to fix looking at the cynical side of things.

    I agree with Wentwest in that I enjoy fiddling with things. FI is pretty much a locked black box. Just stick it in here and it will work. There is no option for fiddling, tuning, getting a little more out of it.
    #66
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  7. CaptnJim

    CaptnJim Scooter Pilot

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    There are options: buy old and you get to fiddle with it... buy newer and you get to ride it. :ricky Hey, I get that some people like to tinker with their bikes and cars, and I have no issue with that. Glad you get to keep old stuff running. I also get that newer isn't always better. But, for some of us, riding is more fun than tinkering. Got to run, I'm going for a ride. :nod
    #67
  8. MacNoob

    MacNoob piney fresh

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    Here, hold my beer.
    #68
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  9. sro99

    sro99 one odd owl

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    Bike needs a license plate holder so I'm making one up. Still have to sand and paint.
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    33.jpg
    #69
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  10. sro99

    sro99 one odd owl

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    Was curious of the wet weight so brought out the bathroom scale. Not very accurate I know. Front weighed 130 and the rear was 220. 350 pounds with a full tank of fuel.
    #70
  11. Bueller

    Bueller Cashin? Super Supporter

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    Your description of fuel injection leaves out the fact that there is no redundancy in a carb, whereas fuel injection has lots of redundancy built in. That is why it has proven to be significantly more reliable despite the additional components.

    You can do a ton of tinkering and modifying with fuel injection - much more so than with a carb - while maintaining much more precise control over delivery, mixture and combustion temperature. When I read these arguments I know the writer hasn’t experienced the joy of being able to richen mixture by 2% at 4000 rpm and 20% throttle, without affecting any other throttle position or engine speed. That kind of precision doesn’t exist in mechanical fuel delivery. I started in the auto business working on carburetors for years. Modern EFI systems are a revelation.

    When the EMP comes people will be killing each other for food, or anything else they want that you have. A carb will be your last concern.
    #71
  12. Steve_h

    Steve_h Been here awhile

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    You just restated what I said. If they were open and adjustable instead of closed and locked up, they could be really great. You do get much finer and more granular tuning if you have a system that can be tuned. Use an aftermarket EFI setup and you've got the control but at a good percentage of the cost of the vehicle.
    I've seen no redundancy. Fuel pump dies...dead car. Crank sensor dies...dead car. Cam sensor dies...dead car. MAF dies, it may or may not run but it won't be nice. MAP pretty much same. IAC dies...rough or no idle or very fast idle. TPS dies...it might run but it ain't pretty. OBD may or may not tell you what is wrong depending on the failure mode and you still have a huge amount of money, wiring, eloectronics that don't like heat or vibration, etc tied up in emulating a simple mechanical device.

    Your point about the EMP is well taken. There will be many other concerns of more importance if that occurs.
    #72
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  13. The Virginian

    The Virginian Long timer

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    Gentlemen.... ahem.... you both are above my pay grade... Carry on!
    #73
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  14. Rusty J

    Rusty J Adventurer

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    How much redundancy and/or graceful degradation of capabilities can one expect from of a single-cylinder motorscooter anyhow? :)

    You don't even have the "limp home with one dead cylinder" option, aside from the manual backup propulsion system.
    #74
  15. Wentwest

    Wentwest How's that work?

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    These posts prove we all seem to have different reasons why we are spending our time messing around with scooters. I'm just happy to learn more and more.
    #75
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  16. cdwise

    cdwise Long timer Supporter

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    You and me both.
    #76
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  17. Bueller

    Bueller Cashin? Super Supporter

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    A single cylinder scooter with a carb only has one cylinder as well :)

    When the slide diaphragm tears in that carb you’re done. When you develop a vacuum leak it runs lean or doesn’t run at all. When you leave it sitting for the winter with fuel in the carb jets clog and it’s teardown time.

    Conversely, when you develop a vacuum leak on an injected engine it knows and attempts to compensate. With very few exceptions when a sensor fails it can obtain enough data from the remaining sensors to keep running. When you leave it sitting for the winter with fuel in the fuel system it starts and runs without drama in the spring, provided the owner used a battery tender or otherwise took care of the battery.

    That is the kind of redundancy I’m talking about. After 29 years spent in dealerships working on vehicles (cars and later motorcycles) and later managing dealership fixed operations I can factually state that reliability has gone way up (as has efficiency), while emissions have gone way down (to a fraction of what they used to be) through the use of this technology compared to the old days of carbs and points. The manufacturers are not spending billions of dollars developing all of this stuff to entrap the consumer into coming to the dealer, so you can put away the tin foil hat. It really does work better, and engines are lasting considerably longer because carbs with chokes are not washing cylinder walls down with raw fuel and diluting the oil on every cold start. Time and technology march on, and I’m glad they do. The fact that I can still tune carbs, adjust points and timing, etc., doesn’t mean I would want to rely on that stuff as I’m blasting down the highway at 7000 RPM on my Xmax to North Carolina today, with temperatures climbing into the mid 90’s. I’m glad it’s injected, even if something were to break or malfunction!
    #77
  18. sro99

    sro99 one odd owl

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    $60 worth of groceries! 3 bags fit under the seat and 1 bag on the hook with 2 frozen pizzas! It's too bad my helmet doesn't fit under the seat. Have to use the cable because of the ratchet strap system. Not a bad look at the 2 dents.
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    A quick peek at the variator nut is very easy with only 2 Phillips screws to remove. Still in the same place I left it.
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    #78
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  19. Steve_h

    Steve_h Been here awhile

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    Wow...that's a packed out Vespa.
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  20. The Virginian

    The Virginian Long timer

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    When you have had time it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Vespa vs. the Honda. You posts in this thread are inspirational to others to maybe try out a Vespa.
    #80
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