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Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by sro99, Aug 6, 2019.
I agree, and it would also be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Vespa vs. the Xmax.
Need more time with Vespa before a comparison post but stay tuned.
Is the slope starting to get slippery? I'm sure this will help....
I briefly considered an Xmax. I've never sat on one, but figured it would be just a larger version of the Smax. They are all plastic, and the new ones are all matte black. They are also super expensive for a Japanese scooter. Since you would have to deal with EFI anyway, it would make sense to just spend a few extra $$$ and get a Vespa 300. Plastic scooters squeak and rattle, and they are a lot more flexy than a Vespa. The Vespa feels solid as a rock. And rides like a '70s Cadillac.
I agree that vehicles last longer now that they ever have before. A lot of that is due I'm sure to better design processes, more accurate machining, better fit and finish of assemblies, much better metallurgy and a need to give the person purchasing some value for all the money they are putting out. Since vehicles cost 3 to 10 times or more what they did 30 years ago, an increased life expectancy of 2 to 3 times is not out of reason.
I realize that the manufacturers spend all the money developing this stuff because the governments tell them they have to if they want to sell their products. It's not to do any favors for the poor schmo buying it. It cuts into their bottom line. Increased longevity actually results in fewer new vehicle sales because people keep them longer.
If your carb is washing the walls with pure gas, there's something wrong with the choke circuit. Gas vapor burns. Gasoline does not.
Electronic ignition was a godsend over points once they got the bugs worked out. It usually lasts longer than the engine to which it was fitted. I would seriously consider converting anything with points to electronic ignition. It just works and is almost 100% reliable. But, there again, it is usually non-adjustable.
I'm giving up debating something that is really inconsequential to us out here. I can appreciate your points.
We are all going to ride what we like and want to ride and I wouldn't have it any other way.
They both have their up and down sides. Some prefer one over the other. Some really don't care. I have and have had both. I find the carb much easier to tinker with and make mods to improve the operation of the vehicle. I would love to be able to tune the FI but it's locked down tight. No tuning utilities available.
I could have bought a GT 200 for about what I paid for the GTS 250ie with equivalent mileage. The GT would have been better cosmetically (mine's beaten) but I wanted fuel injection. I like to take short 30 minute rides in temps down to -5c (23f) (crazy I know, right) and to me, fuel injection is awesome.
I also wanted a clock that runs off the bikes battery (crazy I know, right) and I also wanted ambient temperature display (Forza doesn't have one). My search only included GTS's and I found one for about half the price of what a nicer one (did I mention mine's beaten) goes for around here. $1800 vs 3500 to $4000.
Jerry I have owned my Xmax for 11 months now and have ridden it right at 16,000 miles. I have also done all of the maintenance on it myself. It has not had one problem in that time. I love it. Your statement that they squeak and rattle is just flat wrong. It has a welded steel frame, and the plastic is just covering, not structure. The plastic panels are cheap to replace if they happen to get damaged, and they do not scratch easily. The Xmax is also very stable at 80 mph.
I think Vespas are really nice scooters, and I may purchase one in the future, but it would be in addition to my Xmax, not a replacement. I have never ridden one, so I am interested in hearing a comparison between them by someone who has had experience with them both.
It's a mistake to make blanket statements about the build and ride quality about a scooter you have never even sat on, much less spent a lot of time riding and maintaining.
Oh, and I have not had to deal with EFI, but I have enjoyed trouble free riding with it.
Oh, and apologies to sro99 for the thread drift.
No apologies needed. People like what they like and it's great to see people passionate about what they like.
Don't you just hate those clocks that have a little watch battery and you have to tear into everything just to change it?
I have ridden in weather like that. I try not to these days. It seems the older I get the less tolerant of very hot or very cold I am. I am sort of wondering how the little, new to me, 2-stroke will do in the cold this winter. It starts like it has EFI right now. I hope it starts and runs that well when it's 30f outside.
You got 50 more cc, fuel injection which I am sure will be easier to deal with in that kind of cold. I always say if I have to make a choice, I'll take the one that runs good instead of the one that looks good.
Vespas are totally out of my price range. I almost bought an ET-2 a few months ago. From the pics, it looked great. Guy said it ran great. He just got something bigger and didn't ride it much at all anymore. I could have afforded it but it wouldn't have left me much of anything.
Since I live at elevation and even a run to the grocery is a 1,000' elevation chandler while anything loner can be a 5,000' change I will stick with fuel injection. I have nothing against carbs and our Buddy 125 has behaved very well but it hasn't ever been out of Texas.
Yeah! There is a 12v battery with huge capacity on the bike! Stupid little watch battery trying to survive 4 months of freezing winter.
Well I started out with one Honda Passport. Got up to four before starting to sell them off. Got a Vespa, and now own three. The wife and I ride them around town quite often. I must say, they are very handy to just jump on and go. More fun than I expected. Totally maintenance free so far. You get plenty of attention too while riding.
The red one is an LX and the white one is a Primavera.
Not true Jerry. $5000 for an interstate/travel capable scooter that can go almost 90 and gets 70 - 100 mpg, with ABS and traction control is a bargain. It is almost $2000 cheaper than its closest competitor - the BV350. It is also a great handling, reliable, solid vehicle. I have no idea where you come up with some of your claims, certainly not from actual experience.
I considered the 2015 Primavera/Sprint's because they fell within my budget.
I think 20hp is about the sweet spot for me around here. 2 lane highways are 80kph that people do 95 on. The major 6 lane highway is 100kph and all commercial trucks are governed to 105kph. A bike that can hold 110kph opens up that highway and keeps you from getting past by every tractor-trailer (semi's).
Funny thing that little watch battery was still going strong in my 2006 GTS when I sold it in 2017
My original battery is still going strong as well on my 2006 GTS. I keep waiting for it to fail. Must be and Eveready!
While I have not ridden an X-Max, I have ridden several plastic Asian scooters, one capable of freeway travel (HD200) and none of them came close to the Vespa in any way. This is a case where what's on the spec sheet just doesn't accurately describe the real thing. Have you ever ridden a modern large frame Vespa (GT200, 250,300)? To me, they are more than the sum of their parts. They give you a completely different experience than the Asian scooters.
I have not owned an X-Max. There is no way to own every scooter out there. I have owned 7 Asian scooters, still have one I bought used, the only issue I ever had with any of them was a belt failure at 4000 miles on a 2008 Vino 125. They all functioned perfectly. But that does not mean they were anywhere near the experience that a Vespa provides. The squeaking and rattling came form the plastic bodywork moving around on rough roads. The Vespa does not have any plastic bodywork. And while the steel skeleton frames on Asian scooters do their job just fine, they feel nothing like a Vespa. The Vespa's monocoque frame/body is far stiffer than a plastic body on a welded steel inner frame. On a plastic bodied scooter, the body does not provide any strength, it's just there to cover things up. The welded steel frame supports everything. This gives the Vespa a completely different feel. I did not know about this until I actually got one. On the test ride I immediately noticed the difference. I am NOT putting down other scooters. I have had many of them. I just prefer the Vespa to any of the others. They may all get the job done, but to me nothing else even comes close to the feel of a Vespa. As I've said before, the Vespa is the only scooter I've ever owned that I've actually had emotional feelings about. To me there is more to a bike than spec sheet performance.
Isn't it strange how some machines just speak to you?
I've got one of those annoying little clock batteries in my People that I have to change. Sometimes I see the clock dimly. Usually I can't see it at all.
We don't need no stinking clocks !
Sun comes up , go ride.
Sun goes down, turn on lights ,go ride.
Clock's schmock's , we don't need no stinking clocks .
Clocks are over rated.
My Vespa GTS 250 has plastic: the glove box door and the front fender. The bucket under the seat. None of that squeaks, just like our 6 1/2 year old PCXes don't squeak or rattle. Both build types work. I like my Vespa - it suits me. It does what I need it to do. But an opinion that one brand is better than all others (especially a 13 year old, 4 generation old) is just that: an opinion. Just for fun, it would be great to put Jerry on a NEW Vespa to see if is "better" than an old one. And then put him on a couple other new 300cc class scoots from other brands to see if they are "better" than an old Vespa. It is easy to justify what you have, and not let facts get in the way of opinions.
Joan has a BMW C400X sitting at the dealership, waiting to be released from a "stop sale"... we each rode one for about a half hour before making that purchase... as much as I like my Vespa, that BMW is a very impressive machine! If Joan ever gets to take possession of that scoot, there is no doubt that is going to go faster, corner better, stop better, and be more comfortable than my Vespa... as it is, I have to be on my A-game to stay with her on the 150 PCX through the curves. The Vespa has more horsepower than the PCX, so it is faster on hills and straightaways. Better? As I said earlier: it suits me. We'll see if I still feel that way if we ever get to bring the BMW home.