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Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by MotoJedeye, May 1, 2015.
I have since test ridden 2 Ducati Scramblers, one bone stock and the other with the Termi high pipe on it.
Having ridden both the Triumph and Ducati I agree with most of what's been posted.
Good power & brakes, light weight, pretty good handling
I like the 6 spd trans, it has a good feel to it
It feels lively to ride
It still feels too small. I'd like to ride one with the taller Touring seat on it
Hard(er) to mount luggage on it
Throttle response a bit too quick right off the bottom
Styling OK, but a tad on the modern side for me, but still OK
The fuel capacity is a bit small, another gallon would be much better
It's marginal for 2 up riding
They nailed the look, styling, and size
Decent fuel capacity
Decent for 2 up riding
Better setup stock for dirt riding
Good torque down low and good/smooth fueling
Wheezy engine with only 5 spds
Brakes are just barely adequate
A bit too porky
Stock exhaust NOT very ergo friendly. I pretty much hate it.
I am now waiting to see if Triumph ups their game for the Scrambler in 2017. If they come out with anything like the new Thruxton it might change the game a great deal, we'll just have to wait and see.
If Triumph doesn't up their Scrambler with more power, 6 gears, better brakes, and hopefully less pork then humm..... not good.
I do intend to hit some mellow dirt so those aspects are important also. I very much want it to be 2 up and luggage friendly. I'm becoming done with bikes I can't hang some luggage on. It's the one thing about my Ducati Sport Classic that really annoys me, can't even find a decent tank bag for it.
I'm also watching the Guzzi Stornello Scrambler. I like the looks/styling and shaft drive, but that V7 engine is also wheezy. At least it has 6 gears now. The ergos are not ideal for me, at least the footpeg location. The size is about in the middle between the Duc and Triumph.
Looks like Triumph's idea for the Scrambler for now is just a kit to dress up the Bonneville with 2into1 high pipe etc. Ducati has at least designed a bike around a concept where Triumph and Guzzi have just thrown a few different cosmetics at an existing model. I am a little sad the Ducati is such a small bike.
The Ducati can take any magnetic tank bag with ease. There are also plenty of luggage options available. Multiple companies make stand off brackets to mount soft bags of your choice, or could be adapted to fit a hard bag. There are also several luggage racks that you could strap a dry sack, or adapt to mount a top box to. Yes the fuel tank is small, but it's an efficient engine. I flogged the hell out of mine for 250 miles yesterday, lots of hard acceleration, high speeds, engine braking, and still got 50 mpg. That's good enough for me. It is marginal for two up riding. Part of that is the hard passenger seat. With an airhawk pad on the back it should be much better.
It really depends what you want the bike to do. Both bikes are good, just have different focuses. If you want to tour two up, and aren't concerned with sport riding the Triumph is the way to go. If you are mostly going to be riding solo, and are willing to trade tour comfort for athleticism the Ducati might be the right choice.
It sounds like the luggage options are starting to flow now. When I had originally looked not so much available. I didn't know if the tank was steel or plastic, my Ducati, Triumph, and Guzzi tanks are all plastic so I "kinda assumed"..... not really the right thing to do.
The biggest thing about 2 up was rather cramped space and the rear pegs. We sat on one together at the MC Show last year. It works, but less so than the others. I'm not looking to go touring, more like extended day/weekend rides. We tour on the Stelvio.
I thought I'd read (and rough calculated) around 140-150 mile range. I was guessing ~45-50 mpg and 3 usable gallons with a bit of reserve.
I agree with Rajah1, both Guzzi and Triumph seem to be doing "dress up" of current models at the moment. I was told by a friend who works at a Triumph dealership and went to the dealer conference in the UK last year that maybe something new for the Scrambler might be coming in 2017, but only time will tell what it is.
I'm glad to see things developing for the Ducati, luggage etc.... What really surprised me was so many people feel the bike is too small/short and they offer a factory touring seat that is taller and more comfy. But when I attended the big Ducati demo event in the LA area last year they didn't have a single Scrambler with that seat installed so you might see how it felt.
I'm quite interested to see how it might feel with a roughly a 1" taller seat, different bars, and maybe raising the suspension about 1". I'm thinking a slightly longer shock and maybe a 19" front wheel. I want spoked wheels and would buy the Classic model, so probably just lacing a larger rim to the stock hub. I'd have to check clearances etc., but that's my concept. This would also open up more tire choices.
I think it might change things quite a bit for the better and still retain the light nimble feel. I will totally agree that Ducati nailed the basic foundation, power, gearbox, brakes, and weight, plus styling that looks appealing.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-Ducati, just trying to objectively compare them for a projected purchase in 2017.
Good assessment, I concur with everything you wrote. Regarding the small size of the Ducati, I can say that after a year of ownership, you do eventually get accustomed to it.
@danketchpel I've pushed it to 155 miles before filling up and had about a half gallon left in the tank. I don't really want to run out of gas, and stations aren't on every corner out here, so I tend to fill up around 120 miles. Incidentally that's about the time the fuel light comes on.
I'm a shortass (5'-7"), so I've got no problems with the stock seat and can't comment on the tall seat. Also I love the small size of the bike, fits me like a glove and is very confidence inspiring.
You mention going to a 19" tire. Any particular reason why other than tire choice? Just trying to get more ground clearance for dirty stuff?
I'd also say that I've grown to love the rowdy throttle response right off the bottom. It lets me know when I'm not being smooth enough, and the way the bike leaps off apex's never gets old.
Of course the biggest advantage the Ducati has over the Triumph is being 60-70 lbs lighter. That makes the bike much easier to handle both on and off road.
Keep us posted as you continue to cross shop your next bike.
Your fuel range sounds like pretty much what I expected, sorta like my dirt bikes with similar capacity.
It's always a challenge to make a bike that fits everybody and I'll be the first to say many are too dang tall, and too dang FAT. Ducati took a swing in the opposition field and making it smaller certainly contributed to making it lighter which is a very good thing and not easy to change later on. There's no way you'd pull off 60 lbs from any stock bike, 15-20 "maybe" and it won't be cheap. That's what the Duc has going for it, Ducati got all the basics right and I do value that. It's what I've come to appreciate after trying to make a few other bikes more than they started out to be. It's far easier and cheaper to start with good basics and massage the rest to suit.
I do want to raise the bike just a bit and my thought on the 19" front wheel is that it would accomplish a few things at once, allow more dirt oriented tire choices, work a bit better off-road, and raise the front a bit to match a slightly raised rear using a slightly longer rear shock. I also like the slightly larger front / smaller rear tire traditional appearance. I'm thinking to achieve roughly 1" higher overall bike height, then add 1" of seat height (probably the Ducati touring seat) which I think would put it just about right for me (5' 9") and improve the off-road aspect a bit. I was hoping to not have to go swapping forks to accomplish the front raise. Changing the bars is no big deal and I'd actually go slightly lower with more of a dirt bike bend.
I think the throttle response down low would smooth out with proper non EPA compliant mapping. That sort of "less than smooth" response down low is pretty typical of many EPA compliant bikes. I've already experienced this with several other bikes, especially V-twins.
@danketchpel I get 50 mpg while flogging the hell out of the bike in the mountains. If I ride like a frugal nun I can probably get near 60 mpg if not better, but that's no fun!
While you may not have to swap forks, you should budget for a fork internals upgrade. Once you upgrade the rear, the faults of the front are more obvious... I'm still plotting on doing something with mine, but my farkle fund has been re-appropriated by the federal government.
Interesting you are only 2" taller than me and want more legroom I find it really roomy for my legs. (30 inch inseam).
For dirt riding I'd want big chunky off road footpegs, and the handle bars to be about where they are when stock. This would make it very easy and comfortable for me to stand up on it. A skid plate and engine guards would also be required. But those are things you'd have to add to most bikes anyways.
I had read the stock fork internals are kinda marginal. I figured I'd give them a chance and see.
A key thing I didn't like about the stock seat on both Icons I rode was it sloped to the front quite a bit and kinda stuck you in that pocket which felt kinda cramped as it wasn't easy to slide back. The flatter profile of the Comfort seat seems like the right direction to me.
I totally agree on the footpegs. Speaking of footpegs, does anybody have any feedback on the passenger pegs that are mounted on the swingarm? That seems a bit marginal but maybe it's not so bad?
I'd need to live with the stock bars and carefully evaluate. But I kept thinking during the ride "these ought to be about 1" lower" but that might change after raising the seat and seeing how the standing position works.
Ya, a skid plate would be way up on the priority list as it seems to be on most bikes destined to hit some dirt. I've got mixed feelings on the pipe. I like low pipes in general and if it was suitably protected by a skid plate I'd probably stick with a low pipe.
The one Scrambler I rode had the Termi high pipe on it. But the rear header is still slung low so I'm not sure it's actually any better off-road. It's scary expensive so...... most likely not the first choice. I like the sexy headers of the stock pipe better, it just needs a sweet looking/sounding can.
Front fork isn't quite as compliant as I'd like. It's pretty stiff and has zero adjustment stock.
That high pipe is for looks primarily. Unless you are doing deep water crossings, had no practical benefits. Get a nice can for stock headers instead.
You can fit on any 7/8" bar you want to the Icon, classic, and Urban Enduro. Full Throttle uses a tapered 1-1/8" bar. Plenty of possibilities regardless for handlebars.
The passenger pegs are not mounted on the swingarm. There is a separate cast bracket they mount to. No problems there at all.
EvoTech makes a good looking skid plate, looks much sturdier than the Ducati one, and it's a lot cheaper.
I got a chance to sit on the Duc Scrambler with the Ducati Comfort seat on it today. The local dealer just recently got one in stock and the guy pulled it out for me to sit on. It's definitely what I'm thinking about, about 1" taller. Honestly it's not the "ideal" shape, but MUCH closer to what I'm thinking about.
Here's a shot (not so good cuz of the window) of the Classic with the std seat.
And the same bike with the Comfort seat.
I had him drop it on the Full Throttle as that's the bar shape I'm thinking about, much better than the std bars on the Classic. I realize if you run the lower bars with the taller seat they need to be raised about 1" to match. With the stock Full Throttle seat they are just about perfect.
I agree about the high pipe, kinda stylish but I think I like the low pipe better.
They had a Ducati skid plate mounted on one, it's not big enough for sure. It doesn't cover the front header or the rear especially where the connecting spring is located.
Its not a Scrambler without a High Pipe!
Its not going to burn your leg, stop being a girl.
An 1100.00 dollar arrow pipe is worth ever penny.
The Triumph is Durable, The Ducati can not stand up to real world abuse.
Yes I have ridden both, yes the Duc is faster, If I wanted faster I would buy a Speed Triple.
The Triumph Scrambler is a LEGEND, the Ducati is a poor copy.
you could never hang a sidecar on a ducati and make it look as natural as on a Triumph.
Ducati's don't like snow, they are not as reliable
I have put over 53,000 miles on this Triumph Scrambler subjecting it to very unique abuses. I have crashed it, I sunk it in a lake, I have ridden it through a blizzard. She never let me down. There is only 1 True Scrambler.
Bolting a side-car to a bike is in now way a relatable metric to what makes a scrambler.
And the Ducati not as nimble? HA!
IDK, that looks pretty good to me...
As far as reliability and dirt worthy-ness, this video is one of the more thourough comparisons / thrashing tests I've seen.
Ultimately however, choosing one or another of these Scramblers comes down to personal preference. Both are cool motorcycles, that can't be argued. Buy whichever one floats your boat and enjoy it!
Putting a sidecar on a bike, towing a boat, sinking it in a lake .....??? That sounds to me more like trying to make a truck out of a bike.
I'm glad you've thoroughly tested the Triumph Scrambler for the masses. I've ridden it, nice bike, ...... but it needs a lot to make me smile.
Yup, I look at all of the Scramblers, Guzzi, Ducati, Triumph... I'd look at others if there were some. The one that puts the biggest smile on my face when I ride it and has the most "right" with it, meaning it will take less to make it what I want, will open my wallet.
I own all 3 of those brands now and have experience working on them so I'm not "brand loyal" and don't discriminate between them.
I'm guessing you're going love the Duc as it handles just as you describe. Falls right into corners. It is the most fun bike I've ever ridden.
I hav eover 30k on a Triumph Scrambler with sidecar and without. On road , on interstate and off road. No real complaints except the rear brake caliper should be above the swingarm. Is it a true dual sport bike? Nope. But it does everything well and makes me smile. So be it. Oh....I seldom take a bike to a dealer but would think the triumph dealer network may be larger than Ducati. Yes go ahead and laugh at the umbrella LOL
The Stornello is a nice package. Fit and finish is superior to anything in it's class. The motor is torquey and engaging and the bike is light and nimble. Maintenance is stone simple. Not as fast as the Ducati, but how fast do you need to go on a Scrambler? And it's actually made in Italy.
Made in Italy... I would favor made in Thailand.
Disclaimer: I'm an Italian citizen. I own an Italian motorcycle made in Italy. A friend of mine, who is a very competent Engineer, works for one of the major Italian motorcycle manufacturers.
Still, at the end of the day, I think Asian manufacturers are probably the best. They are probably not good at design, necessarily, but given the specs and processes, they deliver. I think what has given them a bad reputation is when they copied things and produced them at lower standards (but that is market differentiation). And that, copying at lower standards, is not the case for products made in Asia under Western manufacturer specs, such as BMW, Ducati, Apple, IBM (then Lenovo), Triumph, and the list is very long.
In other words, "made in Thailand" is not going to discourage me from a motorcycle. Made in Italy... well, that is another story.