Electric Motorcycle & Scooter News/Updates

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by voltsxamps, Jun 18, 2016.

  1. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    I agree there should be a separate forum for electric motorcycles. I scanned the forum once more to see try and see where the most appropriate place to discuss more powerful electric motorcycles and again could not find a suitable place. So until there is an electric forum, here's a common thread for electric motorcycles over 100v like Zero's, Victory Empulse's, Lightning's, Energica's, Harley Livewire's, Mission's, etc. that can be moved/merged into an electric forum by the admins in the future.

    Update: thread’s title now includes electric scooters as they have recently emerged into the scene from makes like Vespa and BMW.
    #1
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  2. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    [​IMG]

    Based in California, one of the most revered mx bikes is Alta, (formerly BRD) and is tearing it up at the tracks with it's massive energy density at 185 watt hours per kilogram. Alta’s water-cooled 14,000 RPM motor weights just 15lb and puts out 40hp / 34 ft-lbs of torque, and combined with a seamless 3.5:1 gear reduction for a whopping 122 ft-lbs of torque from zero RPM.

    [​IMG]

    While Alta's feature world class brembo brakes, WP suspension, and a Makroblend airframe, it's key advantage over other MX'ers is it's proprietary water-cooled motor controller, tunable to the conditions and the riders style, and can be flipped between maps on-the-fly to respond to changing conditions like hard-pack, mud, and fresh rain.

    Cramming 5.8 kWh into 30.8 kilos with a maximum of 350V is why you'll drop 15K for one of these bad boys. It has earned a prestigious amount of praise from the press for a relative newcomer and finds itself frequently on the podium by punching way above it's weight class. With it's success in the dirt, Alta also offers an even faster model for the street.

    [​IMG]

    Redshift SM

    • POWER 40 HP
    • TORQUE 34 FT-LBS
    • TRANSMISSION SINGLE SPEED
    • BATTERY 5.8 KWH
    • EST. RANGE 50MI **
    • RECHARGE 4 HOURS AT 110V
    • TOP SPEED 80MPH ***
    • FRONT FORK WP SMR
    • REAR SHOCK WP 5018-LINK
    • BRAKES BREMBO
    • WHEELS 17"R / 17"F
    • TIRES PIRELLI ROSSO II
    • STREET WEIGHT 275 (LBS) †
    • RACE WEIGHT 270 (LBS) ††
    • WHEELBASE 57.3"
    • SEAT HEIGHT 37"
    • TRAIL ADJUSTABLE OFFSET
    Redshift MX

    • POWER 40 HP
    • TORQUE 34 FT-LBS
    • TRANSMISSION SINGLE SPEED
    • BATTERY 5.8 KWH
    • EST. RANGE 2 HRS **
    • RECHARGE 2.5 HOURS AT 220V
    • TOP SPEED 65 MPH ***
    • FRONT FORK WP 4CS FULLY ADJUSTABLE
    • REAR SHOCK WP 5018-LINK
    • BRAKES BREMBO
    • WHEELS 19"R / 21"F
    • TIRES BRIDGESTONE X30
    • WEIGHT 256 (LBS) ††
    • WHEELBASE 57.3"
    • SEAT HEIGHT 37"
    • TRAIL ADJUSTABLE OFFSET

    As my son gets older, I'll be progressing him from the 24v dual pack electric he rides now to an Oset, and if he sticks with it, an Alta.
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  3. Cromoth

    Cromoth fan of the magic carpet ride

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    So great you're enjoying trials with your son. Interesting Alta.
    Here's a favorite vid (so far):


    For the street legal, ADV crowd that does the occasional campout/roadtrip/etc. what do you see? Zero seems to have the only practical+value offerings I've found.
    Also, you're like a zen master on this stuff. Is there a FAQ, acronym cheat sheet anywhere (ICE internal combustion engine, etc)?
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  4. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    Thanks Cromoth,
    I too agree that Zero has one of the best performance to value ratios amongst electrics. An FX/S can be had for as little as $6095 and an S/DS for $7995 after fed/state/factory tax rebates and incentives, with their models offering some of the highest factory produced torque on two wheels for the money.


    acronyms

    A - Amps
    v - voltage
    w - watts
    SLA - Sealed Lead Acid
    Li - Lithium
    BLDC - Brushless DC
    C - Charge
    J1172 - fast charge protocol
    L1/L2 - Level 1 / Level 2
    SOC - State Of Charge

    FAQ's

    electric motors make 100% torque from ~zero rpm
    brushless motors run cooler with less resistance and can more easily be overvolted
    EV's are made of 4 main components: battery, throttle, controller, motor
    hub motors reside in the wheel and eliminate the need for chains, gears, or belts
    SLA batteries are 1/5 the cost but have 1/5 the charging cycles
    lithium batteries are 1/3 the weight of SLA with the same energy
    federal law states that electric bikes over 30mph are classified as motorcycles
    electrics below 30mph but over 20mph are classified as mopeds/motor driven cycles
    100v or more is generally necessary to meet the federally required 150cc minimum for interstate use


    I'll continue to edit/update the list above as new terms come to mind.
    #4
  5. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    Founded in 1958 Bultaco is back in the game with a pair of 90mph e-moto's: the Rapitán ($14359 USD) and Rapitán Sport, both with <200km range. It's lithium powered 40Kw motor turns an impressive 92ft/lb of torque and weighs in at 416lbs, placing the Rapitán's torque (and price) just below Zero's most powerful SR (106ft/lb).

    [​IMG]
    Bultaco's reason to get into the production of electrics was the fulfillment of the ideal scenario of a constant torque engine with the same response as any system for a motorcycle without gear shifts.

    [​IMG]
    Unique features of the Rapitan are being able to fastcharge from empty in as little as 45 minutes and having up to 25% brake regeneration, and features internal storage for a full-face helmet or other objects where a gas tank would normally be.

    http://www.bultaco.es/en/rapitan

    If the Rapitán were to be sold in the US, it's possible they could be competitive. Zero's current advantage is it's dual power options for street, sport, and DS, while most other e-moto manufacturers only offer one or two models to choose from, so with Bultaco's heritage, they have a good chance to find success with it's mix of 2 e-sport bikes and 3 street/mx motobikes.
    #5
  6. Cromoth

    Cromoth fan of the magic carpet ride

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    Good stuff for Spaniards. I'd call the "3 street/mx bikes" bicycles tho'. I'll demo a Zero DSR in a few days. If there's a way to charge the DS battery off bike, let me know.

    Also, the upfront costs are a starting point. Less $/time is spent on maintenance, quicker commute for some (HOV/CAV lane), near-free 'fuel', etc - so you could look at a break-even analysis for your situation OR over a 10yr period your total cost is much less than ICE.
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  7. bmwloco

    bmwloco Long timer

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    Way subscribed. I'm all in.

    If I can sell my '83 R100RS, I will have a Zero in the house. Given storage (aka garage) one has to go before another comes in.

    I do not see any "down side" getting a Zero. Right bike for the environtment here, I can use it for a week without recharge (but not necessary) and the idea of only worrying about brakes, belts and tires.... I'm all in.
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  8. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    It's sort of a new category called "motobike" - the term being used in some reviews - pedals (though removable) being the main differentiator. You are correct in that it's sorta a bicycle and I have edited the description as a motobike to better reflect what the Brinco is.

    [​IMG]

    This is how Bultaco describes the Brinco: "this is a hybrid which combines electric and human power, we shouldn't think of the Brinco as a bicycle, nor a motorcycle/moped, but as something completely new."

    I'd love to hear about how your DSR ride went! I almost rode one a few days ago at Douglass motorcycles at their bike night, but had brought my daughter with me and I didn't want my first test ride with my 10 yr old on the back. I'll be back though, as I'm considering a DS or an S as my next electric before the end of the year before the federal tax incentives end.

    Yes, Zero offers separate battery modules charging off the bike with an adapter, plus you can carry a second pack that takes about 60 seconds to swap, doubling range to as much as 394 miles per charge.

    Naturally, many of electric bikes will be compared to Zeros as I believe they are the current e-moto benchmark and some of the key reasons Zero has risen to the recognition it deserves are:

    • value - 10 years of knowledge and experience has allowed Zero to produce high performance motors, controllers, and batteries at a reasonable cost.
    • variety - offering 2 capacity levels of modular battery packs for 3 different class of bikes keeps it simple and covers a wide range of price points.
    • reliability - Zero has a solid network of reputable dealers, robust motors, proven battery performance, with a high quality chassis and components.
    • performance - fast charging, <197mi per pack range, 102mph top speed, and massive torque have been key in sharply growing sales these past 3 years.

    Add in fed/state/factory tax rebates and incentives and they're an even better value. As much as I like other e-motos like Brammo/Victory, Energica, Mission for example, Zeros by comparison are affordable and coupled with great dealer support. Until major manufacturers (Yahama, Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki, BMW, HD, KTM, etc) get into the production of electrics, Zero has this market almost all to themselves. I do, however, see potential for other companies like Evoke with mid-performance street bikes and lower price points ($4999 & $6499) if they can get their marketing off the ground and into dealerships. To date, anything under this price point hasn't produced anything that I'd want to take long distances or on the freeway, though, that should change with the price of lithium expected to come down over the next few years.

    Owning my electric these past 3.5 months has been a joy and not having to stop at the pump or worry about fluids, chains, transmissions, etc, is a bonus and costs an avg. of just .20/day to ride!
    #8
  9. Cromoth

    Cromoth fan of the magic carpet ride

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    DSR demo, stop for lobster roll & ask if I can use an outlet. Girl 1 asks girl 2, who says Yes, there's a Talbot's outlet just down the road. Girl 1 says, no like electric pług. LOL! More later.
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  10. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    Ha! That's good :lol2
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  11. Cromoth

    Cromoth fan of the magic carpet ride

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    Havin' a hoot![​IMG]
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  12. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    ^ Looks like you're having a great time! Speaking of Zero's, just read this amazing writeup on the street version of what you're sitting on: http://www.gizmag.com/zero-sr-2014-.../32015/?li_source=LI&li_medium=default-widget and that was before Zero improved motor cooling with IPM.

    edit: Found a recent ride review of the DSR: http://www.gizmag.com/zero-motorcyc.../41748/?li_source=LI&li_medium=default-widget after improvements to battery chemistry, range, efficiency and heat management. In so many words, they described the DSR as "crazy quick".

    Looking forward to hearing about your post-ride report!

    [​IMG]
    ^ I'd love to have a civilian version of this brd/Alta!

    A year ago, over 50 U.S. police dept.'s were already using Zeros, so naturally the military has also commissioned e-moto's for their stealthiness.

    http://www.gizmag.com/darpa-logos-b.../31584/?li_source=LI&li_medium=default-widget

    Electrics allows an officer to decide to approach a crime in progress with the element of surprise as necessary. Once, I pulled my bike out of a parking spot at the supermarket, unintentionally scaring a woman who was loading groceries in the trunk of her car. I'm guessing it didn't make sense to her of why there was a motorcycle moving past with no sound!
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  13. Cromoth

    Cromoth fan of the magic carpet ride

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  14. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    That video is a great example of electric's massive advantage in rough terrain. Alta's are Zero's closest competitor matching their most powerful SR's 3.3 0-60 acceleration with half the weight and similar pricing, (and with a 13-week back-order) MX'ers have taken notice. Zeros have twice the power but consequently twice the weight, so with both having nearly the same power to weight ratios, I'd love to see them go head to head in the dirt, but I have a hunch that the lighter Alta has the advantage in the loose stuff.

    I'd be great if you could get a test ride on one to compare to the DSR you just rode!
    #14
  15. Cromoth

    Cromoth fan of the magic carpet ride

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  16. EvrythingAwesom

    EvrythingAwesom Long timer

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  17. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    Torque. Good stuff. The rotational force that twists your tires and raises your smiles!

    Screen Shot 2016-06-21 at 11.30.04 PM.png

    The Mugen Shinden won Isle of Man's TT Zero the last 3 years, holds the fastest Lap, and set a new race record, averaging 119.279 mph around the mountain course. Powered by Maxell batteries, the bike weighs 250kg(551lb) with 148hp and 162 ft/lb of torque. An impressive weight to torque ratio of 3.4:1


    TT Zero lap speeds have been improving at an average rate of around 4 mph each year since the series began (119.279 mph as of 2015), and thus could achieve 130 mph by around 2020, nearly equalling the top super bikes of the world (current record 133.393mph).

    For comparison, other bikes or cars with 148hp & 162 ft/lb torque:

    2014 Triumph Rocket III Roadster 2294cc 809lb weight to torque ratio of 5:1
    2016 Vauxhall Adam S 1400cc turbocharged 2597lb weight to torque ratio of 16:1
    1998 Mercedes C-230 2300cc 3250lb weight to torque ratio of 20:1

    That's a lot of tire shedding power on one wheel on such a light bike, and electric puts all that torque down all the time!

    Putting into a car's perspective, the diminutive (and least expensive of <50K cars) Chevy Spark EV's 327 ft/lb of torque can snap a head back harder than a 2015 Dodge Challenger SRT 392 and a host of other muscle cars. :eekers

    Pounds Per Pound-Foot
    1. 2015 Ford F-250 Super Duty ($39,525) – 7.662
    2. 2015 Chevy Sliverado 3500HD ($42,000) – 8.596
    3. 2014 Ram 3500 ($39,070) – 8.631
    4. 2015 Chevy Spark EV ($27,645) – 8.765
    5. 2015 Dodge Challenger SRT 392 ($45,995) – 8.907
    6. 2014 Ram 2500 ($38,295) – 9.095
    7. 2015 Ford Mustang GT ($32,100) – 9.263
    8. 2014 Dodge Charger SRT ($47,385) – 9.272
    9. 2015 Chevy Camaro SS ($34,500) – 9.305
    10. 2014 Chevy SS ($43,475) – 9.578
    11. 2015 Volvo S60 T6 R-Design ($43,550) – 9.966
    and for a quarter the price, the Spark EV has nearly the same tire twisting power as a 2014 Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG – ($99,500) – 8.202
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  18. Cromoth

    Cromoth fan of the magic carpet ride

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  19. EvrythingAwesom

    EvrythingAwesom Long timer

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  20. EvrythingAwesom

    EvrythingAwesom Long timer

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