Electric Motorcycle & Scooter News/Updates

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by voltsxamps, Jun 18, 2016.

  1. magnussonh

    magnussonh Adventurer

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    This would be cool if the price is right. The batteries can be charged at home. "The NIU NQi-Series is using state of the art lithium-ion battery packs by Panasonic with a two-year guarantee. Weighing in at only 10kg (22lbs.), you can easily carry the NIU battery for in-home/office re-charging. The 29aH battery pack is fully re-charged in six hours," (https://www.niu.com/en)
    For me it would be ride from home to office and back, take one battery inside for charging. Take the other battery inside the next day. Or charge them at the office :thumb. Take them both if I've gone for short sightseeing rides. For longer rides, replace them in NIU charge-station.

    IMG_20200107_111759425.jpg
    T.S.Zarathustra likes this.
  2. RedRocket

    RedRocket Yeah! I want Cheesy Poofs

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    65 probably equals 200.




    “State of the art battery packs from Panasonic”.
    It’s starting.
  3. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    I would like very much to learn more about this Panasonic battery. Lunacycle makes e-bike battery packs in various forms, the most bare-bones being a bunch of 18650 cells bound together with a single BMS board, and the whole shebang is shrink-wrapped. Can't get much simpler and lighter than that. They use the highest performance cells commercially available and typically wind up with packs that have around 100 Wh of juice per pound. The 3.5 kWh Niu packs at 22 lbs. each are a BIG improvement on that. Like a 60% improvement.

    Panasonic also works with Tesla to make what is claimed to be the most energy dense cells in the industry, the 2170 cells used in the Model 3. To my knowledge, those cells are built at the Tesla gigafactory and used only in Teslas. One has to wonder if Panasonic is now selling them elsewhere. That would be a Very Big Deal.

    Would you like your EV to have 60% more range?
  4. zap2504

    zap2504 Dave E.

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    THIS would be the game changer! Just make sure it is a licenseable/franchise option so many places can offer it.
  5. T.S.Zarathustra

    T.S.Zarathustra Been here awhile

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    It is Gogoro that has battery swapping stations.
    It would be nice if NIU used standard battery. https://www.niu.com/en/n-series/battery/ The packs look nice, even if they're not actively cooled. But it looks like they have at least 3 standards https://urbanebikes.com/products/niu-spare-battery? from 1000 to 1200 pounds each.
    Still. If the bike is half as much as their most expensive scooter here, it would be less than 10 000 Euros for the bike, with 2 extra batteries. That you can take with you in a pannier, or topbox, and switch out, thereby doubling the rather short range.
  6. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    The latest detailed look at Harley-Davidson’s upcoming electric scooter come via design filings to the European Union Intellectual Property Office:

    Seen below, the design filings show the most up-to-date progress on the H-D electric scooter project and reveal new insights about the vehicle.

    [​IMG]

    The design filings show off a number of interesting features, including a beefier inverted suspension fork than we had originally expected, a license plate holder, and more details on the motor and battery enclosure.

    The motor and battery appear to be custom designs developed in-house by Harley-Davidson, likely as a result of the company’s investment in an electric vehicle R&D center in Silicon Valley.The motor appears to share a metal housing with the battery, perhaps made from cast aluminum. The battery features a handle on top and is shown to be removable — an important feature for city dwellers without garage access who need to charge the battery in an apartment.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
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    We’re also getting our first look at the new floorboard design, which is certainly a step above the original sawed-in-half skateboard decks used on the prototype.

    Other features seen in more detail include the metal fenders, halo head light, mini-bike seat, and belt-drive setup. It’s not yet clear if the belt drive is a Gates model. However, Harley-Davidson uses Gates’ belt drive systems on their other motorcycles including the electric LiveWire motorcycle, so a Gates Carbon Drive setup on the H-D electric scooter wouldn’t come as a surprise.

    The only critical components appearing to be missing in the design drawings are the brakes, throttle, and mirror, though we’ve already seen those in the main image of the scooter at the top of this article.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
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    Source: https://electrek.co/2020/01/12/see-...n-electric-scooter-in-most-detailed-view-yet/
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  7. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    A license plate holder?!?!? With a completely useless rear fender and a hardtail, what practical use does this have in terms of transportation? Methinks HD is still having a hard time putting function ahead of style, or on an even footing - or maybe even caring about function much at all.

    I can't see this being useful as anything but a kid's toy or pit bike for off-highway use. Especially compared to the far-more-functional Asian alternatives that would be much cheaper than what I fear HD will ask for this. It wouldn't be hard at all to give it a hardtail-looking softtail suspension and a decent fender is easy, but they didn't do either. Why not? Who is the target market?
  8. Osprey!

    Osprey! a.k.a. Opie Supporter

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    Urban hipsters. The same ones riding unstable e-scooters without helmets, cruising through red lights downtown.
  9. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    I agree. That “rear fender” is absolutely useless. I guess they figure having a dirt stripe down your backside is part of the look.. and a rear suspension of any type would’ve been nice. Even kids bicycles have rear springs in the seat at the very least. But hey, it’s got that badge and orange paint. Anyone like to guess what they plan on charging for this :scratch I’ll throw out a figure for fun.. $6999
  10. magnussonh

    magnussonh Adventurer

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    Why do people hate HD so much?
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  11. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    Normally it would seem stunningly naive to ask that question when there are so many Harley-bashing threads to dissect and evaluate. In fact, it could be argued that the cultural divide between Harley and everyone else is the most prominent and destructive in all of motorcycling. But maybe that's not so obvious in Iceland.

    I certainly do not want to start another bash fest, but I will offer this to help those who might not understand. HD doesn't build bad bikes at all. They are certainly not cutting edge in any way, and because HD focuses so strongly on style rather than technical advancement their products have an old-fashion look and feel that some love. Doing essentially the same thing forever allows them to refine their products to a great degree, so they can be very good at a few things that have narrow applications. For example, an HD tourer can be perfect at cradling its rider for mile after mile on the superslab, but not much else.

    So basically, HD makes very nicely-finished retro bikes. They don't perform as well (to the extent that in competition they are frequently isolated to compete only with other Harleys), and in general use they are not as capable, nor do they have the same all-around flexibility as more modern offerings. And yet they are ridiculously expensive for what you get functionally. To be blunt about it, there are farm implements more sophisticated than HD's offerings.

    But that's OK. If that was the extent of it, there would be no problem. Motorcyclists everywhere are open to everyone being free to ride and appreciate what they want. What screws it up is HD's arrogant presumption of superiority (to justify the ridiculous prices), and the fawning willingness of many of the "faithful" to believe it. It is so wildly irrational, so clearly and obviously false, yet believed so fervently by so many - to the extent that tribalism completely overrules reality. (The more observant might find some parallels here to what has been happening in the politics of a certain nation for a certain time period in the recent past.)

    To illustrate: no one would argue that a 500 cc Velocette Venom isn't a stunningly beautiful motorcycle, an object of desire that is truly deserving. Everyone is on the same page. But anyone who claims it is functionally the equal, or even superior, to anything available today, and argues as such to anyone who dares point out reality, even when a Ninja 250 easily surpasses it in every way, well, that person has discarded reality. Put enough of those people together and you get a cultural rift that only tribalism, not rational thought, can explain. It's the false presumption of superiority that is to blame here.

    Unfounded hubris is the worst kind. Many would argue it is an embarrassment to all humanity, because it casts our worst tendencies in the worst possible light - by making a big ugly show of it. Whether facilitated by dishonesty or blindness or both, it is repulsive to be associated with it. That is where the negativity comes from. Take away the hubris and false claims, and everyone gets along just fine.

    Another illustration: Moto Guzzi is similar to Harley in that they don't try to be at the forefront of advanced tech. The bikes tend to not perform as well, they tend to be heavier and they have their own unique character, just like HD. But no one is overtly anti-Moto Guzzi. It's just not a thing. Because Moto Guzzi doesn't claim to be something they're clearly not.

    To bring this on-topic for EM news, HD's struggle against this, of which the Livewire is a small part, could easily make or break the company. The "faithful" are aging out and sales just keep falling. HD's whole brand was based on the false presumption of superiority, and no new customers are buying it. HD is now in the impossible position of having to be true to their past believers in order to survive short-term, while at the same time attracting new customers to carry them into the future, but potential new customers can see through the BS. HD needs to transition from one brand identity to another, and the two are contradictory. This is why I believe working in HD's Marketing department will be among the world's worst jobs over the next several years.

    The Livewire is a new element that HD hopes is new and different enough that it might be a bridge assisting in that transition. But as you'll see in the Livewire threads, the presumption of superiority is rife among HD management and has already caused some mis-steps. HD's future is not certain at this point. It is likely one of the most-watched developments among motorcycle industry insiders.
    MJSfoto1956, kzeb, Baja Ho and 2 others like this.
  12. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    US customs rules electric bicycles are motorcycles, granting tariff exclusion

    Micah Toll - Jan. 16th 2020 9:04 am ET


    Last month, Customs made a ruling on the case, confirming that electric bicycles are in fact electric motorcycles, at least for importation purposes.

    According to Steven Mack, the director of Customs’ National Commodity Specialist Division, in his ruling on the request for clarity:
    Interestingly, Mack explained that the decision was made after his office consulted Automotivedictionary.org and Motorera.com, using those resources to determine that e-bikes did in fact fit their definitions of motorcycles.

    The immediate result is that electric bicycles imported to the US from China will no longer be subject to 25% tariffs for the length of the exclusion, which expires in August 2020. The exclusion was originally granted to give importers more time to find an alternative solution and hopefully help encourage them to use that extra time to shift production to the US.

    But as we have previously covered, major US e-bike importers have agreed that that’s not happening. While there are some companies that produce their electric bicycles in the US, they are a small minority of the market. The vast majority of electric bicycles sold in the US are still imported from China.

    Adding one more wrinkle to the US/China trade war saga, Donald Trump just signed phase one of a trade agreement with China — the first step toward easing of tensions and tariffs. However, the agreement doesn’t yet begin to reduce tariffs on imported Chinese products such as electric bicycles.

    Source: https://electrek.co/2020/01/16/us-c...es-are-motorcycles-granting-tariff-exclusion/
  13. RedRocket

    RedRocket Yeah! I want Cheesy Poofs

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    Yes. Well said.
  14. Cataract2

    Cataract2 Where to?

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    I believe you summed that up well.

    Some interesting news though from HD.
    https://ww.electrek.co/2020/01/16/harley-davidson-next-electric-motorcycle/
    [​IMG]
    Picture didn't paste over very well. Check it in the link.

    I do find this next one interesting. Will be curious about the range, but if it handles like I think it will with a good range. This might be one HD badged item to share my motorcycle space parking.
    ctromley likes this.
  15. gatling

    gatling Long timer

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  16. yamalama

    yamalama wet coaster

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    hating HD = #livinginthepast
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  17. effnaggers

    effnaggers n00b

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    Highly unlikely. Tesla uses every single battery they can make, it is a production bottleneck. And it is only going to get worse as the Roadster II, the CyberTruck and the Semi are going to go into production in the near future. Also the batteries are not suited for non-automotive use, without really sophisticated protection, cooling and battery management. They will never be available to end users. Anybody who wants some of those cells will have to buy them used, out of a crashed vehicle.
  18. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    It's been weeks now, but I thought I read elsewhere that the NIU NQi-series bikes use 18650 cells. Tesla is using 2170 now, sourced only from their gigafactories in partnership with Panasonic. Panasonic has plenty of other factories. So applying the advanced chemistry from Tesla to 18650 lines would have no effect on production for Tesla.

    NO lithium-ion cells are suited for automotive use, or any use where many (dozens to 1000s) are put together in a pack, without external BMS and thermal management. "Thermal management" can range from confirming that a shrink-wrapped pack, with no thermal management measures added and stuffed in a bag won't overheat while powering an e-bike under the worst conditions of ambient temp, climb and power draw, to active heating and cooling in a high-power, all-weather EV, including multiple temp sensors throughout the pack. The cell is just a cell.

    The other thing to remember here is that we're speculating on nothing more substantial than a marketing press release. That 3.5 kWh at 22 lbs. could easily be a typo, even an 'oops' inserted intentionally to create buzz. Nothing is real until it gets tested by the public.
  19. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    Hero’s new 53 mph electric motorcycle gets 100-mile range, estimated under $2k
    Micah Toll

    - Feb. 5th 2020

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    Hero Electric has taken to the Auto Expo 2020 show to unveil its first electric motorcycle, the Hero Electric AE-47, among other new personal electric mobility vehicles.
    Despite the unveiling marking Hero Electric’s first steps into the
    light electric motorcycle space, the company has already established itself in its domestic Indian market with a range of seated electric scooters.

    The Hero Electric AE-47 electric motorcycle now bumps up the power and offers a sportier form factor that hopes to woo riders away from the ubiquitous 125cc and 250cc gas-powered motorcycles in the region.

    The AE-47 was unveiled today with a listed top speed of 85 km/h (53 mph) generated from a 4kW (5.3 hp) continuous-rated rear hub motor.

    While that isn’t likely to make the AE-47 feel at home on the highway, it’s certainly sufficient as a light electric motorcycle for city use. Such speed and power levels would be commensurate with the CSC City Slicker electric motorcycle in the US and the Super Soco TC and TS electric motorcycles available across Europe.

    But more importantly, the Hero Electric AE-47 electric motorcycle is designed to compete against its closest neighbor, the Revolt RV400, which is already making deliveries to customers in India. It boasts the same top speed as the Hero AE-47 and has a nearly identical range of 160km (100 miles). Both electric motorcycles are small bikes designed for local commuting, but with sufficiently large battery capacities to go for days without recharging in most cases.

    Pricing info hasn’t been released for the Hero AE-47 yet, but Car and Bike estimates that it will fall below US$2,000, while Zigwheels anticipates a price closer to US$1,100. For comparison, the Revolt RV400 is priced around US$1,300.

    https://electrek.co/2020/02/05/hero...cycle-gets-100-mile-range-estimated-under-2k/
    tallpaul63, ridenm and RCmoto like this.
  20. woodsrider-boyd

    woodsrider-boyd Wow, these guys are fast

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