Electric Motorcycle & Scooter News/Updates

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by voltsxamps, Jun 18, 2016.

  1. Cat0020

    Cat0020 El cheapo

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  2. pckopp

    pckopp Aged Adventurer

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  3. BMWzenrider

    BMWzenrider The Road Scholar Supporter

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    I emailed Delfast with a few questions about this bike, here are the answers I received back:
    1. Does the bike come with DOT approved tires, VIN and Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO) so that it can be registered as a street legal electric motorcycle/scooter? - you can ride 28mph legal or 50 offroad. No option to register as motorcycle. (My understanding is that having a bike with a throttle on the street would require that it be registered/licensed as a moped to operate legally above 20mph. Class-3 ebikes are allowed pedal assist up to 28mph, but are NOT allowed to have a throttle-only option available at all. Class-2 ebikes are allowed a throttle, but restricted to 20mph. -- If it cannot be registered, that is a deal-breaker for me.)
    2. Can the bike be ridden at 40-45 mph continuously on throttle only without overheating the motor or battery? - every our bike can reach max speed on throttle or with pedal assist.
    3. If so, what is the average range on a single charge when driven throttle only at 40-45mph? - at max speed you will have hour and a half of free ride. (so, 75 miles???)
    4. What are the recharge times with the included charger? - first hour up to 50%. full charging time 5-6 hours.
    5. For alternate frame colors, are the battery side panels also in the alternate color, or do they remain black? - could be diff colors
    6. Can you please explain to me what is included in the optional equipment choices? (protection kit, urban kit, other available options) - for $6649 bike has all (fenders, mirrors, tires, rims, protection kit.) - urban kit - city tires 24x3 + moto saddle. Options - spare parts.
    7. One of the options on the order list is fenders, but the bike is shown with fenders installed. Are the fenders shown standard and the optional ones larger? all standard. Extra for future (spare parts)
    8. Do you have an option of a rear rack for carrying light cargo? - yes. attached photo.
    9. What is your current lead time for ordering a bike in either a standard or optional color? - in black we can send bike before 15th September
    10. Shipping time to Milwaukee Wisconsin? - price includes delivery to door. delivery time about 45-50 days.
    And, here are the additional photos that they included:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I would go for one of these with the motorcycle saddle option if I could get a VIN/MCO and title it for street riding above 20mph.
  4. Cat0020

    Cat0020 El cheapo

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    Once registered.. liability insurance would probably be required..
  5. BMWzenrider

    BMWzenrider The Road Scholar Supporter

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    So what?
    Bike insurance is pretty inexpensive, especially if you are just adding on to another bike policy.
  6. davenowherejones

    davenowherejones short old guy

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    Around here every bike requires an $800 policy or more if you are young.
  7. BMWzenrider

    BMWzenrider The Road Scholar Supporter

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    I have full coverage on 2 bikes for only $180/year.
  8. mousitsas

    mousitsas Long timer

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    This delfast bike seems too expensive, heavy and ugly to me and a rear hub motor is not the best idea for electric drive. The sur-ron has to be a much better option.
    woodsrider-boyd likes this.
  9. Cat0020

    Cat0020 El cheapo

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    Speaking of Sur-ron



    MJSfoto1956 and Bt10 like this.
  10. mousitsas

    mousitsas Long timer

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    That is a good demonstration of the difference between advertisement and comparison.
    Jay_In_Milpitas likes this.
  11. motoqueen

    motoqueen One Life. Live It.

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    This eRockit looks interesting
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  12. BMWzenrider

    BMWzenrider The Road Scholar Supporter

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    I went to test ride an UBCO 2x2 bike yesterday and came away very impressed.

    So much so that I almost came home with one in the back of my Subaru, and may yet...

    https://www.ubcobikes.com/us/products/2x2-utility-bike/
    [​IMG]

    The fit & finish is very good, and they seem to be committed to continuous improvement of the product.

    The currently shipping bikes now have an uprated battery pack (48Ah vs. the original 40Ah capacity), a new headlight & dash assembly with a sturdy aluminum shroud, and the main frame now has 3 beefy reinforcing plates added to the steering tube connection points.
    There is a molded rear fender that mounts up to the bottom of the rear rack and continuing in one piece down the back of the frame, and the front fender is molded plastic which feels sturdy and I did not notice any rattling in my test riding. They also kept mud off of me when clawing up a muddy slope (Sorry for making you hose off your demo bike Jon...).
    One really nice touch, IMHO are the multiple accessory mounting points which are welded along the frame and both front & rear racks. The mounting tabs even have a recess forged into the back of them to fit an 8mm hex nut, so that you only need a single tool for mounting/moving any accessories, and reduces places for things to snag without the nuts protruding out the back.
    The battery is very nicely packaged and is very easy to install or remove, and the mass of it is located very low, enhancing the feeling of lightness to the bike when pushing it around or riding. I suspected, and confirmed with a call to the company after the test ride that a second battery could be carried on top of the main battery with only minor work to aid the fitting, and has been done by other owners to double the range, at the cost of losing the step-thru area ahead of the seat, but keeping the weight well centered and low. I feel that to be a fair trade-off if additional range or portable power capacity is desired. It also keeps both the front and rear racks clear for other cargo.

    The dual-hub drive motors means that this is a virtually zero-maintenance vehicle, with VERY little to go wrong when you are back on the trails.
    There is no chain to clean/lube, no belt to break, no transmission or engine oil, etc. The only wear parts are the tires, shocks, and wheel/steering bearings, none of which really require any routine maintenance other than replacing when they wear out.
    That also increases the peace of mind when out on the trails, because if you throw a chain or belt on a traditional bike, you are pushing the bike home.

    Both front and rear suspension have mechanical springs with preload adjustment, as well as rebound adjustment at both ends which make a noticeable difference in response when changed (14 click range at the front, 18 clicks rear). IMHO, Spec'ing suspension with both pre-load & rebound adjustment at both the front & rear is pretty nice at this price point. Also, mechanical spring suspension is much more reliable than air-sprung, making it a good choice for this application.
    The steering geometry seems relatively relaxed which felt stable over uneven terrain, yet has a very generous amount of steering lock to still allow tight turns when desired. There is a nice rubber bumper for the steering lock position.
    The steering and suspension, combined with the wide and plush seat and EXCELLENT machined aluminum footpegs with setscrew traction studs makes for a comfortable and stable ride which is still plenty nimble to weave between trees and do tight U-turns when desired.
    Not to mention being so light that it is very easy to just pick up either end of the bike and swing it around in a seriously tight spot.

    I was not able to play with the power delivery profiles, but that is supposed to be adjustable through a smartphone app with wireless connectivity to the control unit of the bike.
    The dashboard displays battery power in a graph with at least 10-12 bars to give you a decent idea of remaining battery life and a power bar graph on the other side which also shows when the motors go into regenerative mode when coasting downhill or applying the brakes. It also displays motor temperature on the dash.
    When you want to use the bike as a portable power source, there is a separate key position to turn on the single 12v and dual USB-A ports. They are also live while riding, allowing you to keep your phone or GPS powered en-route.

    The throttle is a full-width twist grip and felt like it was easy to modulate the power without the on/off switch feeling of some electric vehicles I have tried. It was easy to slowly roll-on the power to prevent spinning when taking off on loose surfaces, but you CAN get the front wheel to spin for just a moment when taking of if you grab a big handful of throttle.
    The dual-hub motors are pretty quiet, the loudest thing on the bike was the spare key on the ring rattling against the bodywork.
    A friend with much less riding experience also rode this bike, and she said that it was quick and easy to adapt to the throttle response, even without the feedback of engine noise.

    Speaking of the powered front wheel, IMHO, it is NOT just a gimmick!
    On a fairly steep muddy hill and a grassy slope I was able to spin the front wheel due to weight transfer to the rear, yet even then the front end stayed pointing straight up the hill because that front drive was pulling rather than just being pushed from behind. It gave a secure feeling to the handling while the bike continued to motor upwards.
    Accelerating while turning in the gravel parking lot (but not too aggressively on a bike that was not mine) it did feel to me like the front drive was assisting in pulling the front end around in the direction aimed, rather than just pushing/plowing on the loose surface.

    Overall, the ride and handling were confidence inspiring, and I feel that it would be an excellent off-road scoot-about or utility bike.

    ----------

    All is not perfect, however.

    This model is electronically limited to a top speed of just 30mph.
    While that is plenty for getting out in nature on the trails, I felt that it could be an issue even in city traffic which often exceeds that speed by 10mph or more.
    And given that these are fixed hub motors, there is no transmission to multiply torque when needed, so the bike does slow down a bit when climbing a grade. Again, not a major issue when on the trails, but it would make you even more in the way to faster traffic IMHO.

    The bike is delivered with a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO), a VIN stamped into the frame at the factory, and DOT legal lighting, tires, etc. So it is a breeze to register.
    However, due to the speed (as modest as it is} and the lack of functioning pedals this is classified as a motorcycle (or moped depending upon the state you live in) and MUST be registered/plated to legally ride on the street. That will also prevent you from parking on the sidewalk or bicycle racks depending upon how that is enforced in your location. And will probably require you to carry at least liability insurance as well.

    If you wish to be able to top up your charge along your ride, you will need to carry the somewhat bulky external charger unit with you. The charger is NOT sealed against water or dust, so ideally should be stowed in a sealed container while riding, taking up even more space.
    It would be nice if they could integrate an on-board charger.
    And, while there is a torx "security screw" holding the connector plug into the battery pack, that is the only thing stopping a nefarious passerby from quickly lifting and absconding with the $2,000 pack. That security screw could be easily defeated by prying the plug with a large screwdriver, or simply breaking the security pin from the center of the screw's socket.
    I would like to see a much more substantial keyed lock securing the battery in place. But is something that should be easy to remedy by the owner if desired.

    ----------

    What I would like to see is a "Plus" model with maybe 1,500 watt motors front & rear and a top speed closer to 50mph to feel safer taking the bike out in traffic or on hilly roads.
    If they offer that model, I will be one of the first in line!

    ----------

    That is what Cake does with the Osa Lite (30mph) and Osa+ (56mph) models.
    Honestly, I think that the Cake Osa models are the logical bikes to compare against the UBCO 2x2.
    As far as frame, suspension, adaptability, they seem to be trying to do about the same thing,
    but in most parameters, I believe that the 2x2 beats the Osa, other than the top speed of the Osa+ and the rear suspension travel.

    The UBCO 2x2 advantages:
    - Better Range @ 75 miles (vs. 68 mi. for the large battery or only 42 on the stock size battery)
    - Wireless connectivity to custom tune the power dynamics to your taste
    - Lighter @ only 144 lbs with battery vs. 180 lbs with equivalent size larger battery
    - Lighter battery pack for taking out to charge inside, securing it, or carrying a spare pack @ ~17 lbs vs. 37 lbs for equivalent capacity Osa battery
    - Larger diameter wheels for better approach angle to rocks and ruts (17x2.75 vs. 14x4.0)
    - More front suspension travel w/rebound adjustment at both ends, (130mm vs. 100mm)
    - More compact wheelbase for better maneuverability (47" vs. 52.75")
    - More ground clearance 285mm vs. 220mm.
    - Better seat (in my opinion) (thickness & shape)
    - Standard front and rear racks which are bolted to the frame versus an additional cost accessory on the Osa with tension clamps that are supposed to grip onto the smooth frame beam,
    - MUCH better accessory mounting points/options with rigid welded on attachment points and standard diameter round frame tubes versus the funky smooth retangular main frame spar.
    - Better fenders both front and rear
    - Better frame design (in my opinion) Easier to install and remove battery without a top-tube in the way, and the step-thru frame for getting on/off more easily with MUCH lower standover height, making it easier to hold up and walk the bike around.
    - Better battery design. Battery is JUST a battery, rather than having the accessory outlets built in, making it more compact, lighter, and less complicated/expensive. {2.6kWh (2.4kWh rated) UBCO battery = $1,995 verus 2.5kWh Osa battery = $3,000} {1.5kWh Osa battery = $2,000}
    - 90Nm of torque at each axle (90x2=180Nm) versus 151Nm of rear wheel torque for either of the Osa models.
    - Rotating motors with radiator fins to assist in cooling. (versus a fixed motor stuck in behind and up against the battery pack, and directly under the rider's butt.
    - And the advantage of the dual-wheel drive with no chain/belt/etc.

    Areas where the Cake Osa Lite or Osa+ have the advantage:
    - Rear suspension travel of 260mm (spring pre-load only) vs. 120mm (pre-load and rebound adjustable)
    - 12 volt power outlet capacity of 180 watts vs. 120 watts for the UBCO
    - Wider tires 4.0" versus 2.75" (3.0" max) for the UBCO
    Osa+ only: 56mph top speed, and double-crown inverted fork versus single crown conventional (But no note on any adjustability for that fork)

    If I were looking only at the 30mph limited models, the choice would be a no-brainer, IMHO.
    The stock UBCO 2x2 retails at $6,995 and periodically goes on sale for $6,500, often with added accessory kits included like roll-top waterproof panniers, etc.
    An Osa Lite with the same battery capacity but still claiming less range, with front and rear racks retails for just over $8,000.
    Cat0020 and Allucaneat like this.
  13. zap2504

    zap2504 Dave E.

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    ^ And now the NZ govt is testing them for all sorts of off-road use domestically.
  14. sadudu

    sadudu n00b

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  15. Cat0020

    Cat0020 El cheapo

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    MJSfoto1956 likes this.
  16. zap2504

    zap2504 Dave E.

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    ^ I was just going to post that! Still, if Honda can greatly reduce the price (economy of scale; supply chain optimization; vast dealer network) then good for them. But they better also provide a CT125, Monkey and Grom version.
  17. Jay_In_Milpitas

    Jay_In_Milpitas Zero to sixty in February

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    An electric "Grom" type sport bike is already sold by CSC Motorcycles, named the City Slicker.
  18. zap2504

    zap2504 Dave E.

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    Right, but CSC doesn't have the dealer network nor reputation in the USA like Honda. Plus if Honda is going to do an E-C125, they might as well do an E-all the other 125cc models since it is the same ICE powerplant.
  19. jimmy650

    jimmy650 South Canol Racing Club

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    Any news about the Drill One coming to the US?
  20. dogsslober

    dogsslober No neck tie, Ti neck

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    There web page list a US distributer ,info@cpd-usa.com