Electric motorcycles equivalent to 320-373 mpg

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by voltsxamps, Mar 14, 2018.

  1. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    #61
  2. chasbmw

    chasbmw Long timer

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    There is a taxi company in the Uk that replaced its electric leaf at 175k miles, because the seats had worn or
    Out, the battery pack was fine.
    Battery packs can be recycled or repurposed as a domestic battery.

    Tesla is claiming several 100s of K miles from their batteries, much greater life than modern complicated ICE vehicles.

    I think that EVS will just take the market, the 250/300 mile range EV at 20k £-$-€, will do it on the basis of running costs and driving experience.


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    #62
  3. Mark Weeks

    Mark Weeks Adventurer

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    I firmly believe the future is in electric, not just from a necessary point of view as non-renewable energy simply will run out by definition, but from electric very rapidly overtaking the performance aspect of vehicles as well. Everything is simply changing to Electric. That being said, I will probably keep my ICE track car that I've lovingly build and raced over the years, maybe a couple of my bikes, but I will never purchase another personal vehicle that isn't plug-in. Especially considering my business is run by solar panels over my head and gives me all the clean energy I need for free. Why more people aren't doing this I don't know. I see endless roof tops doing nothing but absorbing heat.
    #63
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  4. BrianTRice

    BrianTRice Nerdy adventurer

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    A stock Zero tends to get 6 miles per kWh at highway speeds. At city speeds, 12 miles per kWh is typical. With a good windscreen and/or fairing, I get about 8.5 miles per kWh at highway speeds.

    I hope to get 10 or more miles per kWh soon, coupled with a battery upgrade to hopefully round out highway range to 150 miles per charge, with a one-hour time to recover that range while charging. At that point, touring will be less of a chore, and daily riding will be trivial; if some work in progress on the vendor front succeeds, I can put a dent in that hour down to 45 minutes.

    To be clear, my goal is to accomplish this in the current year with my 2016 bike.
    #64
  5. chasbmw

    chasbmw Long timer

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    That’s much better range than I expected, but my unicorn requires an extra 100 miles range and 200 kgs weight!

    I use my bikes mainly for longish trips and weight is more of an issue as the years go by.

    My electric push bike does up to 60 miles on a charge and will go up to 20 mph (limited by law). Great around this hilly town I live in.


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  6. BrianTRice

    BrianTRice Nerdy adventurer

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    The reality of electric motorcycles is that every kWh of battery costs at least $400 still (stepping down by 15% every year or two), so every additional 6 miles of highway range is expensive, and every bike people think is overpriced at $15,000 is actually just a $9,000 bike with a $6,000 battery.

    The battery ought to be a recoverable asset as a house battery but that's still to be proven practical (aside from people with professional experience doing it individually, which has happened a few times now).

    This is all to pay for what is effectively 0.5 gallons of gas (only on the very newest model with the added battery upgrade). My bike is working on more like 1/3 gallon of gas, to underscore the topic again.
    #66
  7. chasbmw

    chasbmw Long timer

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    I had understood that current estimates were that battery costs were heading rapidly towards $150 per KWh? Lots of smoke and mirrors on this issue.


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  8. BrianTRice

    BrianTRice Nerdy adventurer

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    No, it’s just more complex than that. EV batteries for cars are different from motorcycle batteries and can be produced in massive quantities.

    The cells used in good electric motorcycles are denser and have different tradeoffs than car batteries. Car batteries rely on immense volumes to fill within a car that a motorcycle cannot afford. The charge and discharge rates can be lower per cell, and thermal management also benefits from the size of the pack and ability to run coolant across it.

    Motorcycle cells for Zero, Energica, Brammo, Alta, and others are more expensive per kWh and do not directly benefit from work by Tesla or other car manufacturers. The materials processing does get cheaper, but the production pipeline diverges considerably after that. One industry they thankfully benefit from are electric industrial vehicles like forklifts and warehouse trucks.
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  9. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    Alright! Now we’re cooking with gas!
    er.. I mean..

    Tesla Model 3 travels 606 miles on a single charge in new hypermiling record
    Fred Lambert

    - May. 27th 2018 12:11 pm ET

    [​IMG]

    Hypermiling is the practice of driving vehicles as efficiently as possible in order to achieve the longest distance possible on one charge/fuel tank.

    It’s not a useful way to determine the range of a vehicle for normal driving, but it’s an interesting way to see how the way someone drives can impact fuel efficiency.

    Tesla owners have now established a new hypermiling record in a Model 3 by traveling 606 miles on a single charge.

    https://electrek.co/2018/05/27/tesla-model-3-range-new-hypermiling-record/


    Noice! :bmwrider

    Tesla’s model 3 is using more energy dense cells compared to the S & X, showing promise for longer range in smaller battery packs for next generation electric motorcycles.

    and this kind of range didn’t require the car to have Prius-like acceleration as the Model 3 in non-performance form can still run a 13 second quarter mile.
    #69
  10. cjw

    cjw Adventurer

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    so the electrical distribution grid is free?
    #70
  11. Rugby4life

    Rugby4life Been here awhile

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    I haven't paid for a single fast charging electron since I installed a dual J-plug Diginow setup 1500 miles ago.
    #71
  12. BrianTRice

    BrianTRice Nerdy adventurer

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    I said nothing about cost or fees, and that’s not what this thread is addressing.
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  13. cpallen

    cpallen Nearly Adventurer

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    I disagree with your statement that car batteries are (by any necessity) different than motorcycle batteries. My BMW C Evolution Scooter has three of the same battery packs that are used in their i3 (which has eight packs). It also uses the same KLE charger module. The individual cells have gone from 60 to 94ah over the course of three years and will go to 120ah in 2019. The cells are all the same physical dimensions and have the same electrical characteristics. The bike is built in the same factory as the i3. This is a singular benefit of one company manufacturing both an automobile and motorcycle, and why the C Evo is marginally less expensive than the Zero (while IMHO using much higher quality components). If Tesla or Honda built a motorcycle, they would certainly disrupt the market for the manufacturers you listed above would be hard pressed to compete.
    #73
  14. BrianTRice

    BrianTRice Nerdy adventurer

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    Yes, BMW is the only manufacturer capable of this right now. Honda could achieve the same in principle.

    But motorcycle companies generally don’t have this ability to leverage R&D.

    Also, the units in question fit the maxi scooter (feet forward) form factor but are a little bulky (mass and volume) for upright motorcycles or sport bikes.
    #74
  15. davenowherejones

    davenowherejones short old guy

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    F150 Electric???
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  16. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    They already have the perfect name for it. Lightning!
    #76
  17. davenowherejones

    davenowherejones short old guy

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    My boss had a Lightning. His way of demonstrating the ABS was to accelerate a lot heading for a building and then jamming on the brakes. The truck did get wrecked but I forget how. He did somehow get permission to use an active runway for a high speed run. Impressive truck.

    Why are there no fully electric pickup trucks?

    I want a Zero DS. Lottery tickets have been purchased.
    #77
  18. hevster1

    hevster1 n00b

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    I am really surprised that an adventure motorcycle forum has members debating MPG of electric motorcycles and talking about how wonderful electric vehicles are. It makes me wonder if the members really ride their bikes other than bar to bar. I ride my dirtbike farther than the range of a typical electric streetbike per day. I would love to have a noiseless off road motorcycle but unless it has sufficient range, it's just not practical for me. On road 120 miles of range is ridiculously low for me as well. I often ride 500-800 miles per day. I guess i am in the minority.
    #78
  19. BrianTRice

    BrianTRice Nerdy adventurer

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    There are a few of us on this thread who actually ride electric and I definitely tour.

    The charging overhead limits me right now to 500 miles per day. So that’s 8 hours of riding and about 5 hours of charging.

    My highway range right now is up to 135 miles and I’m working on a faring update to get 150 to 170 miles of range.

    And that range change means more time spent riding versus charging while touring, so more miles per day. An electric motorcycle has completed an Ironbutt run on a one-off streamlined bike so we’re just trying to commodify that setup.

    It’s truly hard work right now but the idea is to have touring kits for these bikes that raise the stock range going forward. I’m using 2016 cells, and 2018 cells have a 15% advantage over mine so a new bike would already be getting 150 miles range with my setup.
    #79
  20. WagonWillie

    WagonWillie Been here awhile

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    I also own and love a 2016 Zero SR with the charge tank. Great bike if used as intended. Yes, I still own and ride ICE bikes as well, primarily for the greatly extended range. However I think that as battery technology continues to improve the electrics will become more and more viable for longer and longer distances. Here is one such advancement, albeit not quite ready for prime time: https://newatlas.com/nawa-technologies-carbon-ultra-capacitor/54972/
    #80