Electrical bike, nuggets style...

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by nuggets, Oct 9, 2017.

  1. john6012

    john6012 Adventurer

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    I like the idea of an electric bike, when I was a kid there was some talk of someone putting a 12V starter on a bicycle and from what we heard it would root and scoot. Has anyone ever heard of this mod?
    #21
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  2. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    Hey Nuggets do you know the aprox weight of the motor and controller?
    #22
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  3. PeterW

    PeterW Long timer

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    As far as the starter motor powered bikes goes, yes it can be made to work. Goldwings use them for reverse after all. A starter motor is horribly inefficient, heavy and relatively short life compared to the brushless motors used now. If you are going to go to this effort, use decent components.
    #23
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  4. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    @PeterW has nailed the answer to this. The only thing that I would add, is that an e-bike kit will also include the controller and throttle and other useful extras, as well as already being designed to fit a bike.

    Here you go:
    [​IMG]

    This is where the photo came from: https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/...al-then-it-better-be-able-to-outrun-the-cops/

    Also, check these articles out if you want to know more about this kit:
    https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/...n171-deadeye-monster-889-57lbs-w-out-battery/
    https://www.electricbike.com/cyclone-3000w-build-report/

    Some good quotes:
    This kit could get you into a lot of trouble. Sooo…before jumping on the power wagon, consider these points:
    • This much power is way more than any ebike needs
    • This kind of power would probably be considered illegal to operate at full power on most city streets
    • This kind of power can get you hurt bad if you crash at top speed
    • This kind of power will snap drivetrain components.
    • This kind of power is hard on batteries etc…
    • This kind of power is generally going to make the bike more unreliable.

    Cons of high power
    • Inefficient
    • noisier
    • possibly illegal
    • less reliable
    • hard on battery pack
    • you can hurt yourself
    Lots more good info in the articles. You'll also see that you can install this kit a lot easier than I make it. I just let things get out of hand...
    #24
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  5. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    I ordered a 2' x 4' kydex sheet to use to build the battery box. While waiting for that, I put it all back together, and put the battery bag on the bike. Then I took it for a shakedown ride to the local singletrack. I figured the rooty track would quickly suss out any issues.

    The battery bag sucks since it doesn't fit the frame well, and lets the battery bounce around too much. It would be a great bag for a larger frame, or for riding on the street. Other than that, the rest of the bike was solid. It could use a bit more brake though. Even with the larger front rotor and hydraulic brakes, it felt a bit manic at times. Of course, when you twist the throttle, the thing takes right off.

    The exposure went nuts on this photo... As shown, it weighs 56.6lbs. You can see the battery trying to escape the bag...
    [​IMG]



    The battery was just flopping around the whole time.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    The bike handles well, even with the extra weight. I spent some time showing another biker around the trail system, so I did just pedal it for a few miles, and it does surprisingly well just pedaling along. I did nearly whiskey throttle the thing into a tree, but otherwise avoided any trouble. When I stopped to check the controller and the battery, they didn't feel hot, but the motor does get hot to the touch.


    I maxxed it out at 39MPH on the surface streets, and was hanging nicely with 35MPH speed limit traffic.
    [​IMG]



    When on the gas, the thing feels like a light weight dirt bike. It's got tons of torque, and is a bit scary on the MTB trails, so I'm happy.


    So, you might have noticed that the progress posts are coming fast and furious... Not typical for a nuggets build thread where you might just get an out of focus picture of a rusty bolt and some random flower pics to show for a whole week... That's because this is all past progress. Everything in this post happened June 11...

    You see I rode it a bit, did some burnouts, decided it needed a better battery box, and didn't know how to proceed with the battery box. So I did nothing... for months... :fpalm
    :dunno

    Let me tell you, I fucking struggle with this... I get started, things go good for a bit...:flug then I get to the struggles... :confused and nothing... :snore fuck... :uhoh

    Anyway, so I'm back at it now... :nod
    #25
  6. waylongway

    waylongway madmax Supporter

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    I saw this months ago w/ my eclipse glasses......:csm.......:brow........:zilla

    Whats the Holedup......? :amazon

    We want to see blood and stupid moves.....:turkish.......l:p3rry
    #26
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  7. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

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    "If You’re Gonna Build Something This Illegal Then It Better Be Able To Outrun The Cops"

    I'm so in! Again! :ricky




    Sean :D
    #27
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  8. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    :clap:wave

    You asked for it... Regular old pedal bike did this to me. Spiky pedals.
    [​IMG]
    #28
  9. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    Thanks for the info nuggets.
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  10. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    Must make Mr. @waylongway happy...
    :whip
    So, I built a lot of this, then decided to start posting up (again)... So lots of in progress pics were not taken...:nono

    Progress has been made...

    I made these plastic blocks and bored holes in them using the lathe, then sliced them in half...
    [​IMG]
    Combined with Kydex straps, they make a couple of nice attachment points...

    Here's a detail shot of the box at the front of the bike. The Kydex strap and pad secure the plate, and I have a formed piece of Kydex connecting the box sections...
    [​IMG]

    Another shot of the downtube attachment point...
    [​IMG]

    This Kydex stuff is pretty awesome. It cuts using regular hand tools. I'm just using handsaws... The belt sander cleans the cuts up nicely... Then just heat it up, and form it. If you dork it up when you form it, just heat it again, and try again... The strap in the photo above, well it took me about ten tries to form it how I wanted...

    More strap goodness... This whole thing is quite strong... Again each strap took me a bunch of tries to form. Heat it. Fuck it up. Heat it. Fuck it up. Heat it. Fu....:thwak Well you get the idea.
    [​IMG]
    It really does the trick with these fancy formed bike tubes that are all kinds of not round, and change diameter too...

    Then I built this bolt on side panel reinforcement plate...
    [​IMG]
    Not round, but still holes... :dhorse I had to cut it out like that since there was some machined in lettering... this is all built with scrap rescued from the recycle bin...

    I built myself a little jig and formed up some Kydex like this...
    [​IMG]

    I used it to make these pads so the battery doesn't get torn up by bolt heads...
    [​IMG]

    Just rivet it right to the plates...
    [​IMG]

    And then I built this fancy little shelf and filled it full of holes... :raabia
    [​IMG]

    And cut up a side panel...
    [​IMG]

    It's just a rough cut...
    [​IMG]

    And the first trim to size...
    [​IMG]
    Still got to use the sander to fine tune the fit. See how I extend it past the seat tube, and pick up the curve of the fender.... :0-0 That way I can hide the wiring that is behind the seat tube...

    So the battery fits in there like this...
    [​IMG]

    Here it is without the battery. Not bad I think. I am experimenting with using the Rok strap as a battery hold down...
    [​IMG]
    Actually, I think that aluminum panel looks pretty cool, and it's a shame it will be hidden..

    And now we are all caught up.... :drums:brow:*sip*
    #30
  11. more koolaid

    more koolaid Been here awhile

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    Nice fab work :clap
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  12. Bt10

    Bt10 Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the e-bike links; really opened my eyes.
    #32
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  13. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    Thanks!

    :beer


    Here we go...

    I'm not sure how I'm going to hold the battery yet, so I got going on the right side panel... First a little CAD work...
    [​IMG]

    Then got to work with the hand saw...
    [​IMG]

    I was stumped as to how to attach the right side panel. I want it to be quick release with out using tools... :hmmmmm:scratch:dunno

    Then, I saw the latest stoooopid car fad....
    [​IMG]

    Oooh, buttons and O-rings. I can make that...
    #33
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  14. sanjoh

    sanjoh Purveyor of Light Super Supporter

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    Careful with the PVC cutting sanding etc, very toxic.

    How do you like the motor and controller setup? Does it throttle smoothly? Have been considering the same setup for my fat tire bike.....
    #34
  15. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    You made me think a bit, so I looked up the MSDS... :cob
    https://www.auralex.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Kydex-MSDS.pdf

    "KYDEX® Thermoplastic Sheet; acrylic/PVC alloy
    Other Designations: Mixture of polyvinyl chloride, chlorinated polyvinyl chloride, acrylic polymer, processing
    aids, impact modifiers, heat stabilizers, and lubricants"

    "Toxological Information
    Accute Inhalation Effects:
    Polyvinyl chloride [PVC]: Rats and guinea pigs exposed continuously to PVC dust for 24 hrs/day
    for periods varying from 2-7 months were found to have extensive lung damage. In rats, inhalation of fumes from
    heated PVC produced interstitial edema as well as focal, bronchial and intraveolar hemorrhage."

    Note to self: avoid being a rat or guinea pig... :arg:eek7:eekers

    Nothing of too much concern there. I have a little wheeled cart with my sander on it. I do all my sanding, and grinding outside since it's so messy. Therefore, I can avoid inhaling the dust.
    I am doing all of my sawing with hand tools, so it isn't creating fumes or throwing chips all over.


    Thank you for keeping an eye out for me :thumb

    The throttle is pretty smooth. The controller seems to have some sort of ramp up function that adds a small delay to big throttle inputs, so it's hard to controllably power wheelie the bike.

    I've heard some good stuff about the Kelly controllers. Luna cycle sells one already pre-wired for the cyclone motor: https://lunacycle.com/kelly-50amp-controller-for-cyclone-72v/

    The Kelly controller is programmable, smaller, lighter, and can push more AMPS. 130 Amp burst vs. 100 Amp burst for the cyclone controller. My battery manager limits current output to 100 A burst, 50 A continuous.

    The cyclone controller isn't perfect, but it's pretty good.
    #35
  16. Salsa

    Salsa Long timer

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    Be sure you get lots of air flow around the battery.

    Don
    #36
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  17. more koolaid

    more koolaid Been here awhile

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    ^^^ MORE HOLES !!!!
    #37
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  18. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

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    I think he needs a dimple die machine. :evil



    Sean :D
    #38
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  19. MrPopples

    MrPopples Been here awhile

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    subscribed!
    in for some e-bike madness :)
    #39
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  20. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid! Supporter

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    Pretty impressive so far! :thumb
    #40
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