Electrical strangeness - please help

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by seh750, Nov 4, 2004.

  1. seh750

    seh750 Been here awhile

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    I just installed a set of Dual-Star heated grips with a Heat-Troller variable controller. I have the exact same setup on my FJR and it works great there.

    On the 950, I have it wired through the switched accessory lead (number 1, I believe). When the bike is turned on, but not running everything works great. The light blinks slowly when the Heat-Troller knob is turned to the left and blinks progressively faster as the knob is turned to the right. Seems to have an appropriate effect on heat.

    When the bike is running, the Heat Troller seems to have three states: off, during the first 1/3 of rotation, hot during the second 1/3 of rotation, and blow the fuses when turned most of the way to the right.

    The Heat Troller is powered and grounded with the accessory leads. The grips are wired in parallel with the white leads going to the white wire from the Heat Troller and the blue and red leads from the grips together going to the purple wire from the Heat Troller. This is the setup that is suggested on www.FJRTech.com and the same setup I used on my FJR where it works great.

    Any suggestions?!?!?
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  2. k7

    k7 Almost retired....tick..tick..tick..

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    I think the accessory wires are fused for only 5 watts. I know nothing about those grips but if you're blowing fuses, your electrical load is more than the fuse can handle. Either run different (larger) wire with larger fuses or get a multimeter and measure the resistance at different points. Share your findings and we'll go to the next step.
    #2
  3. Stephen

    Stephen Long timer Supporter

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    Five amps.

    That's 60 watts at 12 volts, 70 at 14.

    Does DualStar give a consumption figure for the grips? It's likely in watts, so we'll have to do the math.
    #3
  4. pfb

    pfb Riding, not skiing.

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    I can't imagine that the wiring to the accessory port, regardless of the fuse size, is heavy enough gauge for electric grips.

    Run it right to the battery, with it's own dedicated fuse.
    #4
  5. seh750

    seh750 Been here awhile

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    Dual Star quotes the grips to use 36W...that's only 3 amps, so the wiring and fuse should be sufficient.

    Even if the rating of the wiring and fuse were a little low for this application, that doesn't explain the change in behavior when the bike is running vs when it is not running...I've never encountered that before. I certainly could rewire it to the battery and use the accessory circuit to trigger a relay if people think that will help.
    #5
  6. Reformed DucFlogger

    Reformed DucFlogger Inventor Of The Wheel Mk2

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    The 5 amp connections under the 'glove box' ARE NOT dedicated connections to the battery.

    If you look at your wiring diagram (drop me a PM with an email address and I can send you a color pick from repair manual), the connections are, shall we say, convoluted on the battery side of that fuse box.

    Fuse 1 (switched) shares the same switched 12v as the headlight, unswitched with the clock and there is some debate as to what role the voltage regulator plays in these connections.

    In short, it isn't just a clean switched straight run to the battery at either of those connections.

    I run a heated vest of the unswitched circuit with a Aerostitch heat controller with no issues.

    My guesses would be a combination of:
    ---------------------------------------------
    1. The 5amp rating for that connection is optimistic at best. Don't the DS's some with two watt ratings (high/low) and what amount of current does the heat troller draw? It's not a simple resistance-based controller right?

    2. Something is coming on when the bike is started that either shares that connection that is causing issues with the heat troller.

    3. The voltage regulator is somehow coming into play and fucking up your heat troller's little mind when the bike is running.

    Options
    --------

    1. Just run nice fat, heat- resistant cables to the battery via a relay controlled by that switched circuit.
    2. Try connecting to the unswitched circuit - note: the ones on mine were mislabeled (#1 ws #2, etc).
    3. Disconnect the heatroller and just go straight with a high/low switch and see if the same problem occurs.

    Curious ...
    #6
  7. seh750

    seh750 Been here awhile

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    I don't know how much current it draws although I certainly could test. No, it's not a simple resistance-based controller, I believe it's a essentially high-speed on-off switch...but that's based on memory, so don't quote me.

    This seems to be the quickest way to salvation, so that's what I'll do. I have a second power outlet running straight to the battery already.

    I tested the circuits so I'm positive which is switched and which is unswitched.

    That'd be just as much work as running the whole shebang to the battery, so the battery it is.


    Thanks for the suggestions everone!
    #7
  8. Reformed DucFlogger

    Reformed DucFlogger Inventor Of The Wheel Mk2

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    I was just curious how it worked on the unswitched circuit - I guess would be the same as the switched with the bike off.

    I thought as much on the heat troller, most manufacturers have moved away from the older resistance-based controllers.

    I'd guess something in the power delivery when the bike is running is giving your heat troller circuitry fits.

    It is an odd one though.
    #8
  9. FarmerRick

    FarmerRick Long timer

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    According to my wiring diagram for my Dual-Stars, the Red wire is the Ground Wire for each grip while the White is for High and the Blue is for low setting. In an earlier post I thought you said you had the Blue and Red goint to the Purple on the Heat-troller? Seems to me you are gonna have a short somewhere with that setup.

    I am using the regular High/Low Switch but if I were gonna use the Heat-troller, I'd use the White(High) wire to the Purple on the Troller and make sure the ground is set up correctly.

    It is only a 3 amp draw, so... something in the wiring or the Heat-Troller is wrong. Having dealt with Heat-Troller on my Gerbing clothes, I'm VERY CONFIDENT that it is not their equipment (okay the odds are like 1 in 10000 that it is).

    Is that the REAL Heat-Troller or the chinese knock off?

    Rick
    #9
  10. wesfnw

    wesfnw portland,or

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    ...but...if you wire them to the battery...what will happen
    when you leave them ON overnight?
    and you WILL leave them on...I know :huh
    wes
    #10
  11. Shuffler

    Shuffler Hommes Grande

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    I just installed the Dual Stars a while back and went w/o the HeatTroller unit. I run the switched accessory plug, since I don't want my battery to run down in case I forget to flip the switch to 'off' when I park the bike. The Hi/Lo settings are great so far. No electrical problems or quirkiness to speak of.
    #11
  12. k7

    k7 Almost retired....tick..tick..tick..

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    Thanks for the correction... 5A is what I meant to say. Sorry.
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  13. Greg Minor

    Greg Minor The Trespasser

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    Where can I get these?
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  14. seh750

    seh750 Been here awhile

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    Yes, I know the blue/red combination is not what Heat Troller recommended but they actually list the FJRTech site as an example of directions and that setup does work. Once again, everything works fine when the bike's not running. And yes, it's a "real" Heat Troller.
    #14
  15. seh750

    seh750 Been here awhile

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    That's why I'll install it with a relay...
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  16. seh750

    seh750 Been here awhile

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  17. Katoum

    Katoum Adventurer

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    I thought it wasn't cold in California. :rofl
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  18. FarmerRick

    FarmerRick Long timer

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    Just for jollies :evil you may want to check with the folks at Heat Troller. They helped me diagnose a similar issue with my Gerbing gloves. It turned out that the gloves had a short in the cuff that was blowing a 15 amp fuse! :eek1

    Of course the great question to ask Heat Troller would be, why only when the bike is running? Is there anything else on that circuit?

    I did a search on the FJR site and found this post...

    http://www.micapeak.com/bike/FJR1300/mods/heatedgrips.html

    Their wiring was a bit different that what you described and provided 2X the wattage through their parallell wiring method!

    I installed my Dual Stars to the 5 amp switched accessory wires with the regular toggle switch provided in the base kit and everything seems to be working fine. It's 38 F this AM and I'm going out to test them right now!!

    Best of luck in diagnosis and cure!!

    Rick Mathis
    04 Adventure
    99 Gran Canyon
    and other assorted old shit
    #18
  19. Greg Minor

    Greg Minor The Trespasser

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    it gets chilly in the early AM
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  20. seh750

    seh750 Been here awhile

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    Here's where I found the heated grip wiring that I used. Sorry, it's a different site than I mentioned earlier. But I just noticed the comment about double the wattage.

    http://www.fjr1300.info/mods/heatedgrips.html

    Still going to rewire to the battery sometime this weekend and see if that solves it.
    #20