Everyone keeps asking for a middle weight, twin cylinder, adventure bike...

Discussion in 'Japanese polycylindered adventure bikes' started by ParleG, Aug 18, 2016.

  1. Tallbastid

    Tallbastid Stay Grateful Supporter

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    Bingo. I'm a really big guy, the biggest thing holding me back on this plan is ergos and suspension. I love the F800 motor though.

    Also thinking of trying the same with an older Tenere or R1150GSA or 950. I like all of them :D
  2. Alacrity

    Alacrity Semi Pro Bar Vaulter

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    If you're Clydesdale enough the 800 Beemer ergos may cramp you, you aint buying off the rack anyway. GL man, expect to see a cool build thread soon:clap
    Tallbastid likes this.
  3. yokesman

    yokesman Long timer

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    if Buell could design a 435lb bike with a 210 lb engine plus 10 more to connect it , a battery big enough to push that starter, 170 size cast rear wheel,it Can be done.
    But at what cost will they make the effort 9-1K for a 650?
  4. Blakduk

    Blakduk Don’t be too practical.

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    Well I did a write up on my Versys, not really an adventure bike like the imaginary XTZ700 (who would know if one even exists), but at least is is here and I think I might have got it right (bought one, had never ridden one!!) as it might just be what I want as a middle weight adventure (country roads) bike. It fits in this thread discussion well but here is the link
    http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/versys-owners-checkin.276645/page-407#post-30688067
  5. plugeye

    plugeye MC rescue

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    wonder what the weight range of "middleweight" is?
    is there a lightweight twin thread?
  6. x32792

    x32792 Cracker American

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  7. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    No one can agree on the weight... but I'd say
    -250-300cc twin (New Strom & Versys) is lightweight in motor size atleast
    -450-800cc twin/tripple (T7, RR500x, GS&XC) is mid in motor size
    -950-1300 twin/tripple (all the rest) is heavyweight in motor.

    What I think most are hoping for in this thread is 450-650cc parallel twin bike that weighs sub 400 lbs and ideally 350 and has great suspension. Is that possible?
    Nicholost and plugeye like this.
  8. x32792

    x32792 Cracker American

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    ^^^The XL650L suffers the same emission woes as the XTZ660, DR650 and KLR. New machines to meet new regulations can't be too far in the future.
  9. John Ashman

    John Ashman Adventurer Wannabe

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    Aprilia did it. They just didn't get the motor right and it failed. But not for lack of being a fantastic idea.

    I still point to the ideal as 500cc twin in rally (350lbs) and ADV (400lbs) configurations. I think a well done 450cc Rally race twin could compete and win.
  10. John Ashman

    John Ashman Adventurer Wannabe

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  11. Gryphon12

    Gryphon12 Long timer

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    I looked at the Aprilia RXV/SXV 4.5 and 5.5 very carefully. Yes, the motors were over-stressed, but the engine concept was sound - just detune it (bore/stroke, crank, cams, FI). However, we are then back to the Dual Sport / ADV vs. Enduro / Motocross design issues.

    In short, Aprilia built a full-on v-twin race bike that cost $9,500 USD MSRP in 2009. No rear subframe. Minimal battery and alternator. Tiny fuel tank. It takes 30 to 45 lbs. of additional weight to address the design changes to make a race bike into an ADV. Now, the Aprilias were very light to begin with, so maybe it is possible to stay under 400 lbs.

    The Aprilias were all aluminum. I don't believe 350 lbs. with reliability and range is possible without very expensive materials, and some off-road long-distance components are actually better in steel. To manage weight, you'd be using ultra-high-strength steel, which costs some where between forged aircraft-grade aluminum and titanium.

    FI and exhaust would have to meet Euro4. Using the Aprilia concept as a starting point, you might be able to do it. My guess is that the cost would be between $12-$15k USD with the quality of suspension, hubs, wheels, triples, bars and accessories the Aprilia used. I would love it. I wanted to do it. No one would be willing to pay for it.
  12. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    Small V-twins will not happen because small parallel twin are much more compact in these smaller bikes.

    V-twins will not go away but will only be found in larger ADV bikes.
  13. x32792

    x32792 Cracker American

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    ^^Opppossing and slanted parallel twins also have a lower COG.
  14. John Ashman

    John Ashman Adventurer Wannabe

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    To be fair, anything Italian is pretty much $1000-$2000 more than the Japanese. Also, we have quite a few new materials tech advances that could assist in lighter frames. But realistically, add a good 25-35lbs to get to a more commercially sellable rally style product. Then 30-40lbs more to get to a proper ADV bike. I think that is reasonable and doable with judicious use of materials. And could sell well enough to pay for the investment. You could even make a scrambler from the same platorm and a street oriented model. 4 products from a single frame/engine design. Assuming this is a 500cc or smaller engine, not a 700-800cc engine, anyway. I dare say that AJP could do it if they found the twin they could buy cheaply enough.
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  15. Marotte

    Marotte Been here awhile

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  16. Gham

    Gham past expiration date Supporter

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  17. John Ashman

    John Ashman Adventurer Wannabe

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    Yeah, my eye tape says 38" seat on the prototype.
  18. decooney

    decooney Enduro Rider

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    ...and another photo and view of the T7 concept loaded with a (how tall - 5'10" to 6'1" est ???) rider seated, foot down. Looks like Yamaha might be getting a little more serious with their piddling with the "next generation of adventure bikes" for more offroad use. However, if its only available in Europe then many of us will all be on the lookout for other future options once again.

    [​IMG]
  19. John Ashman

    John Ashman Adventurer Wannabe

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    The T7 clearly follows the concept of the Tenere 660, original AfricaTwin, TransAlp, etc. Big, badass rally bike, damn the weight. I was expecting more of an F800GS by Yamaha and that *seemed* to be what the spy shots showed, but hard to tell. I don't know how much demand there is for a big rally bike, though if i were a big guy, I would want one, though still, probably something more like 400lbs max. As an ADV touring bike, you have more leeway in weight. I don't think anyone would complain much over a 450lb touring bike.

    The odd thing is that the presenters and the rider at the show really offered nothing convincing. They sounded hesitent, guarded, unconvinced that they've nailed it. That it was just a "concept" or "direction". I mean, even the rider wasn't effusive, just sort of like "yeah, yeah, it's pretty nice". It's too bad they don't release the specs on the concept so we know more about where it is. I think if it weighs 400lbs, it would attract a lot more interest, though I suspect that isn't the case anyway. The reality is that its forbearers never sold in great quantities. Maybe they're just trying to gauge what the proper relationship of Rally to ADV DNA that should be in this bike. It would have been also a cool idea to show an ADV version with bags and maybe lower suspension, less aggressive styling, comfy seat, etc, etc.
    neanderthal likes this.
  20. Ron Earp

    Ron Earp Been here awhile

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    I'd love for someone to produce a 750-900cc parallel twin ADV bike that had all the features of the larger ADV bikes along with shaft drive. The Triumph middleweight with all the options is damn near perfect to me except for that chain. Yes, I know all the chain pros etc. but I just don't want one.
    sinned and atravlr like this.