F700 16T sprocket = Gear indicator failure?

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by MrMac, Apr 3, 2018.

  1. morfic

    morfic Been here awhile

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    You can probably enable Enduro (F700GS doesn't have Enduro Pro where you can drag the rear, it just allows some more slip on rear before it kicks in) in Motoscan, I know I can disable mine using the Motoscan app.

    Does everyone with the gear indication issue lack the Enduro mode?

    I could put up my settings file from a Motoscan backup if someone wants to compare codings.
    #61
  2. MrMac

    MrMac Long timer Supporter

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    Only 'rain' and 'road' for modes. My wife has no interest in off-road, but having the option would be nice. I'll keep an eye on this thread..

    It would not surprise me if BMW has a software fix for this (sprocket change), after all, I would consider it a 'bug' and not a 'feature'! I've heard, but haven't confirmed, that this problem would occur in any of the new '19 GS chain-drive bikes and that a simple reset is available in the software. Curious if anyone with a 750/850 would know?
    #62
  3. JimsBeemer

    JimsBeemer 2017 R1200GSA Supporter

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    I wonder if ESA is a key variable in both the gear indicator issue and/or the availability of Enduro mode? My wife’s F700 has the factory low suspension option, which eliminates ESA as an option (cannot get it even if you want it). When my dealer looked at available options to see if Enduro was available, he did it based on the VIN, as I recall, and assuming so, the computer system would have known that the bike was incompatible with ESA. Just throwing it out there.
    #63
  4. Tigershark48

    Tigershark48 My other BMW is a Roadster.

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    My dealer said I have Enduro Pro on my 2017 F700, since it’s premiumed out with everything. I plugged in the activation dongle that came with it and no dice. More dialog with the dealership verified that, as Morfic pointed out, Enduro Pro is only available on the F800. BMW mistakenly provided the dongle with my bike. And, yes, I do have ESA.

    The way the dongle works is you plug it in to the appropriate matching wiring harness socket under the seat. When you turn on the ignition key, Enduro Pro is displayed on the screen as a run mode option. Mine didn’t display that mode.

    They probably didn’t put it on the F700, since it’s considered to be primarily a highway bike with minimal off road capability.
    #64
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  5. JimsBeemer

    JimsBeemer 2017 R1200GSA Supporter

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    Interesting - you can probably sell that dongle on eBay - I’m sure there is some boxer rider who has lost theirs!

    To verify: you do have Enduro mode, just not the Enduro Pro, correct? I assuming so, I’m more and more thinking that the ESA is the key piece to the puzzle for Enduro mode availability.
    #65
  6. Tigershark48

    Tigershark48 My other BMW is a Roadster.

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    Correct.

    My screen shows:

    Rain
    Road
    -blank space-
    Enduro

    And the bike has ESA
    #66
  7. morfic

    morfic Been here awhile

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    @Tigershark48 could you measure resistance across the plug? Is it just a fancy wire or does it have a given resistance?
    #67
  8. Tigershark48

    Tigershark48 My other BMW is a Roadster.

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    Your request sounds familiar. We talked about this before and you were speculating that the dongle is nothing more than a jumper for completing the wiring harness circuit. Probably the case since I just now measured 00.1 ohms across the two dongle pins.
    Reversed leads and same 00.1 reading.
    #68
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  9. JimsBeemer

    JimsBeemer 2017 R1200GSA Supporter

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    So .. I finally had a chance while staying at a fellow inmates place in in Panajachel Guatemala to pull out the GS911 and try to reset the adaptation values for the gear sensor on my wife’s bike. The adaptation values correspond to a sensor voltage reading in each gear. The old vs new values were not very different so I did not have much hope, but it took another week before we found ourselves on a road that you could get into 6th gear long enough to try it out! (Symptom is gear indicator blanks out ~30 seconds to a minute after you reach sixth gear).

    And .... no joy. Same issue. But we’re keeping the sprocket because the wife is happy with the response of the bike. We took an off road training course ~1.5 weeks ago from a BMW certified trainer out of Guatemala City (Jose Pinto, just a great teacher, a natural. He also is a BMW certified moto-tour operator) and he was all thumbs-up with the mod. But in my opinion, having this issue pop up because you do something as simple and common as changing sprocket ratio is a defect. And could clearly be addressed if BMW wanted, but is probably noise in their grand scheme. Main issue is loosing visual verification of 1st gear after coming to a stop. But sixth gear situations are far and few between where we are now and where we are headed . We can live with it.
    #69
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  10. mrrz500

    mrrz500 n00b

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    I changed front sprockets on two 2017 F800GSA's. Both have Enduro Pro and both lose gear indicator. Also both threw a unknown code of 1182 if I remember right. If you shut bike off while no gear indicator number is showing it will not start. You have to push start it. I guess it thinks it's in gear still even though you do have it in neutral.
    #70
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  11. JimsBeemer

    JimsBeemer 2017 R1200GSA Supporter

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    I saw this pop up on the BMW MOA Facebook page a while back;

    https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...s-motorcycles-have-defective-gear-indicators/

    Not sure I agree with the severity of the safety claims stated, but it clearly is (in my opinion) a design defect, and I’d be happy if this forces them to offer a fix, which I’m guessing is simply a software/firmware patch. My wife would really like to have that visual confirmation on which gear she is in after coming to a stop.

    Jim
    #71
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  12. morfic

    morfic Been here awhile

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    The lawsuit on grounds of safety over the gear indicator is frivolous.
    #72
  13. JimsBeemer

    JimsBeemer 2017 R1200GSA Supporter

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    I don’t disagree. But I’d still be happy if it forces them to offer a fix!
    #73
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  14. morfic

    morfic Been here awhile

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    Would be welcome as it's a common change.

    About that douche, not knowing how to shift brings up his issues, I know, I've seen a myriad of phantom neutrals and weirdedness until I shifted right for the bike, took me a couple weeks to get rid of old habits. No issues since.
    #74
  15. Seajaybc

    Seajaybc n00b

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    Hi There, had a similar problem. Took the sensor out and chased the wire back. I found the wire loom zap strapped to the swing arm Pivot. I assume from the factory. However they strapped it underneath so that with suspension travel and chain slack it would rub. Opened up the loom and sure enough broken wire. My initial symptoms were unreliable gear indication and finally blank including green neutral light. Easy to check either way.
    #75
  16. All-Terrain

    All-Terrain Adventurer

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    Still no resolution on this, with the 2017’s...?
    #76
  17. MrMac

    MrMac Long timer Supporter

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    Last I checked BMW considers this a 'feature', not a 'bug'!

    So, no.. But I really haven't pursued it recently either.

    I'm an curious if this is an issue on the 750/850 models. Haven't seen anything posted so my guess is that they have a software tweak that can accommodate a sprocket change. That was something that the dealer mentioned *might* be available on newer models.
    #77
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  18. JimsBeemer

    JimsBeemer 2017 R1200GSA Supporter

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    It CAN be the sprocket. It IS the sprocket on my wife's 2017 F700GS. It has factory low suspension so it does not have ESA, this is the first model year to use throttle by wire, and I think both of those may be related. But going back to original sprocket - no problem. Put on 16T sprocket and she looses gear indication after going into sixth - just blank. It comes back on after stop/start. Sometimes comes back when she just comes to a stop - she hasn't tried to figure out the magic combination but seems to be something like you have to stay stopped for a certain amount of time or you need to be in neutral at a stop - something like that. But it is definitely, without a doubt, due to the 16T sprocket. She likes the overall gearing w/ the 16T so she's sticking with it despite the annoyance. Sounds like a firmware/software issue to me.
    #78
  19. Tigershark48

    Tigershark48 My other BMW is a Roadster.

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    Sucks to lose the display, because it’s such a great gear ratio.
    #79
  20. Tigershark48

    Tigershark48 My other BMW is a Roadster.

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    Changed back to my original front sprocket yesterday. Constantly losing my gear indication with the 16T on my 2017 F700 did not make it worthwhile. While there was an increase in performance during gear change acceleration, the gain didn't offset the information loss. While I could ride without seeing what gear I'm in, why should I? Going out and buying a new bike without a gear indicator would be a big turnoff to most riders. I bought the 16T in hopes that my F7 indicator would be unaffected. With respect to my experience with the smaller sprocket, it didn't really wow me for my highway riding style. I found myself being tempted to blast through the lower gears more for the fun factor. With 70 hp, it really wasn't that exciting. Dropping one tooth does not equate to 20 or 30 more horsepower. I could see stronger justification for off roading, but I never do that.

    Anyone out there looking for a great deal on a rubber snubbed 16T for their F650 or F700, PM me. The brand and part number are JT Sprockets SCM20/20 CrMo (www.jtsprockets.com). Supposedly losing the gear indicator with the 16T only happens to random 2017s and if you're off roading, it might still be worth doing.
    #80
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