F800 GSA - Remap Results

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Sjones423, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. Sjones423

    Sjones423 Been here awhile

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    After all the talk of AF-XIED and the benefits it brings to the bike, I looked into it. By chance, in the process of doing so I came across a place in Hinckley (England) called Hilltop Motorcycles - famous for remapping bikes. Further research shown lots of positive feedback from them, with many happy customers. I contacted them, and they claim that anything the AF-XIED would do to the bike, their remap would do plus a whole lot more. Different than the normal ‘re-flash’ using software they downloaded from somewhere, they actually write their own mapping software that they install onto blank space on the ECU. This runs alongside the BMW software and does not interfere with it, nor is it detectable by BMW. They also claim that it is self learning, meaning that any alterations following it, such as new exhaust systems etc will not be a problem, as the bike will adapt to it. The bike doesn't require time to 'learn' anything, it simply performs as required as soon as you ride away. They place the bike on a dyno before and after the remap, to show the results. The cost was £360 - not cheap by any means, though in terms of an £11000 bike, it's not a lot to be having it run as it should do. They offer the facility for people to send them the ECU in the post, and the remap will work the same. The bike obviously won't be put on the dyno, though the results will still be there.

    Whilst I was at the garage, they had visitors from the Kawasaki race team having work done on their bikes, which speaks volumes of their reputation. They also do custom engine rebuilds and race tuning, so they’re more than just a basic flash shop.

    I had ridden around 10000 miles on the bike in 2 years, until I covered 2000 miles last week alone travelling through France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany and Switzerland. Just before leaving England, I had the bike remapped. Therefore, I know the bike well enough to know how it felt beforehand, and such a distance in a short space of time has given me enough of a chance to judge the results effectively.

    I can honestly say it's made a big difference to the bike. In terms of hard numbers from the dyno, it's obviously taken from the back wheel as opposed to the crank. BMW rate the bike at 85 BHP, though the dyno readings show differently due to this fact. A simple back wheel-crank conversion using an online calculator has helped to reflect the improvement that has been made. Following this conversion, the dyno reading prior to remap is shown as 88 BHP. This is with the addition of my Mivv Speed Edge slip on exhaust - a gain of 3 BHP which is pretty much as advertised.

    Following the remap, it's now showing 96 BHP. A pretty significant gain, that is clearly noticeable when riding. This equates to a 10% increase, which is also reproduced in the increase in torque. Furthermore, pre remap the optimal torque was shown to be around 7000rpm. Post remap, it's around 5000rpm. Clearly much more usable, as you don't need to rev the ass out of the bike to get there.

    More importantly than the (welcome) gain in BHP is the throttle response. Everyone knows the vibration issues with this bike. This is now pretty much non existent. First gear has gone from being unusable (far too on/off), to actually being useful. I can ride from 1000rpm right through to red line with a smooth power delivery throughout, in each gear.

    The dyno graph, prior to the remap shows peaks and troughs. After it, it's a smooth predictable curve that is very noticeable when riding.

    I've included the chart below so you can see the difference for yourself. Keep in mind, the BHP reading is taken from the back wheel, hence why it makes for low reading. The line clearly shows that now, rather than a slump around 5000rpm, there's actually a peak.

    In no way am I associated with the company, I just thought i'd share my thoughts and give people something to consider when looking for a way to improve the bike. Any questions and i'll be happy to answer!

    Edit: Here's a link to their website/ Facebook page with lots of reviews on there for those who're interested, which may be a few of you given the responses

    https://www.facebook.com/hiiltop.dyno/
    http://www.hilltopmotorcycles.co.uk/


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    #1
  2. Merlin32

    Merlin32 Been here awhile

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    That's quite a jump , I'd like to see the numbers without the "conversion" to crank horsepower. I'd like to see straight real wheel numbers on both passes. I've done headers, can and AFXied and I fell mine is also putting out some impressive numbers I'd say to the tune of 8-10 horse. How's yr gas mileage .
    #2
  3. Sjones423

    Sjones423 Been here awhile

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    I've just uploaded the chart. As it shows, it has jumped from 65.88 BHP and 45.79 ft/lb torque (with mivv can), to 71.13 BHP and 54.63 ft/lb torque. More impressively, is how smooth the power is delivered now compared to before. (From the back wheel as opposed to the crank)

    Fuel has stayed around the 55mpg range. Although now there's being more fuel delivered, the power is lower down so you don't need to rev it as hard. Also, the bike is happier to sit in a higher gear at times which will help.

    On this 2000 miles trip, I was with a r1200 GSA. What I found interesting, that on certain sections of 4 hour motorway rides, come the time to fuel up i'd used up 2-3 litres of fuel less than him, despite sitting at 80mph for hours with the bike sitting around 5000 rpm for a while. Not sure if that was due to the mapping or just the bikes, though despite the smaller engine, it's clearly working harder to maintain those kind of speeds compared to the 1200 yet is still consuming less fuel overall.
    #3
  4. zknezo

    zknezo Been here awhile

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    This sounds great, but what’s the compromise? i.e. - why wouldn’t BMW tune it like this from the factory? Emissions?
    #4
  5. zero war

    zero war Zee

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    I’d be very interested to know if someone has tried this on their F700gs


    Zee
    2000 triumph thunderbird sport
    2015 BMW F700gs
    #5
  6. Sjones423

    Sjones423 Been here awhile

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    That's exactly the reason. The emissions standards are so strict that the bike is running too lean as a result of it. Essentially, the re map allows the engine to run as the BMW engineers intended it to do so.
    #6
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  7. Gaspare

    Gaspare Almost dirt rider

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    ...moreover, when the F800 series were on development, the performance of Mr.Rotax was so good that BMW scared to create a direct competitor for R1200 (weight, cost...).
    So they choosen to derate the power moving the target to low fuel consumption.
    #7
    zknezo likes this.
  8. Sjones423

    Sjones423 Been here awhile

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    Sounds feasible. The 2000mile trip was in company with a 1200gsa and since the remap, there wasn't too much difference between them in fairness
    #8
  9. zknezo

    zknezo Been here awhile

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    Hmm, looks like my ECU might be getting pulled once the snow starts falling.
    #9
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  10. dpike

    dpike BeeKeeper Supporter

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    i inquired about posting an ecu to them, they replied it's not a problem.

    hmm... :hmmmmm
    #10
  11. zero war

    zero war Zee

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    Maybe we can Get a Discounted price for riders who want their ecu’s tuned from the nyc-N.J. area.


    Zee
    2000 triumph thunderbird sport
    2015 BMW F700gs
    #11
  12. amartin4410

    amartin4410 Been here awhile

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    They sent an email with instruction on how to send the ECU to them and stated it was a typical 1 day turn around. I also spoke to them and read a bunch of reviews. They seem to be a top notch company and have great experience in tuning.
    #12
  13. Sjones423

    Sjones423 Been here awhile

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    That was ultimately what led me to take my bike to them.

    Whilst I was there, they had a guy from the Kawasaki race team bring down one of their track bikes to be remapped by them, so the reputation is certainly there.
    #13
  14. SidewinderX

    SidewinderX Hey, watch this! Super Supporter

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    Who wants to facilitate a group buy?

    I wouldn’t mind having my 800 and 1200LC done.
    #14
  15. thetrux

    thetrux Adventurer

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    Waiting for someone that has had an AF-XIED to try one and give a comparison. Interested to know if there's much of a difference.
    #15
  16. hamjet

    hamjet n00b

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    So has anybody got an idea on cost?
    #16
  17. dpike

    dpike BeeKeeper Supporter

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    $400 usd plus shipping.
    #17
  18. zknezo

    zknezo Been here awhile

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    I currently have an AF-XIED, so I'll be a data point in a few months.
    #18
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  19. Bayner

    Bayner Long timer

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    AF-XIED will only change the fueling. A good tune will modify fueling - and timing to suit the new AFRs.
    #19
  20. Sjones423

    Sjones423 Been here awhile

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    It might be worth asking them if you should remove af-xied following a remap. You may as well sell it and get some money back, as I see little to no benefit in having both.
    #20