Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Lost Roadie, Mar 23, 2010.
It could be a harder job than I'm thinking .... most of them I actually tackle turn out that way....
Simple job if just the shift shaft. I did it with the bike on the center stand. Gasket for cover and the shaft. 30 min job. (I didn't even change the gasket......although that is not a good idea based on aerated oil conversations in another thread.)
Hardest part was realigning the shift lever. Just make sure to torque the cover in the proper sequence.
6 quarts 10w40 $26.74
1 crush washer for dp $1.99
1 Gasket $25.59 (!)
1 Selector Shaft CPL $90.79
parts sub: $144.11
repair total before tax $373.89
They were pretty beefy~2-3 inch is my guess. When I hit a decent sized one, I knew it. :eek1
Work order notes:
-DRAINED OIL TO INSPECT - NO CHUNKS OF METAL
-PULLED LEFT SIDE COVER TO INSPECT
-REMOVED SHIFT SELECTOR LEVER AND FOUND IT BENT
-REMOVED CLUTCH ASSEMBLY TO INSPECT SHIFT DRUM AND DETENT
-WITH CLUTCH REMOVED IT WAS POSSIBLE TO SHIFT BIKE THROUGH ALL GEARS WITH SHIFT DRUM
-REPLACED BENT SHIFT SELECTOR SHAFT
-ASSEMBLED AND TEST DROVE - GOOD
And there we have it .... I underestimate every time...............
I would probably have just replaced the selector shaft assby (if I couldn't bend it straight again) and gone on ....
The pictures I have seen of the shift drum and gears would have (perhaps mistakenly) lead me to "assume" they were undamaged ...
ya gotta admit that they look pretty beefy right?
But seriously ... I feel much better about the price charged after seeing the work breakout.
They did a yeoman's job of making sure the problem was fully addressed in a single visit.
2-3" thick? You ran into a tree!
Admittedly, I read your post from "back when" and considered doing the job myself as you.
Bike is still under warranty and figured it was a 50/50 shot (with the aftermarket shift lever) it would be covered. At the end of the day, the local dealer has pretty good wrenches who DO deserve a decent wage so the piece-o-mind knowing all was looked at makes the repair easier to swallow. + could use fresh oil anyway.
Dang beefy :eek1
To borrow a picture from Inmate Mr. Cobb from the same event:
Yup... as my daughter says ... "Dad ... deep cleansing breaths ... deep cleansing breaths ... now MOVE ALONG"
DARN!!! You got the lube job! Its 0.5 in labor and no need to drop the oil with those symptoms.
The cheap TT shift lever is better IMO cause it usually bends before the selector pawl. It's 0.5 hours labor in shop, add .2 to drop the oil AND put it back in if nothing is wrong with it, I would have insisted on a personal lube service at that price.
P.S. It truly is a simple job if you see someone else do it first, I straightened mine in a starbucks parking lot, in the dark, with a rock.
OK. So it's done. F800GS is gone. Sold for parts. (looking for an R80 now ).
But for those of you who are still riding the F8...keep an eye on your pivot mounts.
I did a search for engines this weekend and found 3 more currently being sold off with the same crack I had. A 4'th engine was being sold without the bottom half of the case...probably same crack.
Considering this is just a list of engines that I found which are currently being sold off for the problem, I'm thinking there might be quite a few more F800s out there with crack already started that haven't shown yet or with the crack that became a full blown case break and have already been parted out.
I understand BMWs position and that they didn't look into my situation even though it was clearly a manufacturing defect because there aren't enough customers complaining like there were with the crappy wheel bearings that were installed.
I'm sure that this is partly because these cracks aren't showing up for most people until after the engine is out of its warranty period...therefore BMW is never finding out about them.
Mine was still under warranty and BMW refused to address it...certainly doesn't say much for BMWs confidence in the longevity of the F800GS.
---> BMW Technical might already be fully aware that they have a lot of bikes exhibiting this problem which could be one of the reasons they so staunchly refused to even consider that the engine destruction on my bike was their responsibility. If they never admit there is a problem, they never have to fix the problem.
Anyway, I've said good riddance to the bike. It was a "white herring" as my wife put it and it really sucks that what was a great relationship with BMW products had to end this way.
As a customer whose most recent purchase was seriously prone to manufacturing defects and warranty issues, I'm suspect of the quality of anything BMW motorcycles is producing right now.
Me thinks they need to re-evaluate the cost saving measures they've instituted in the production process and take more control over how their motorcycles are crafted...they've already lost this customer to poor quality manufacturing and I'm sure that I'm not the only one with issues.
I'm pretty sure your failure was a casting flaw, and have seen one other I concluded this about.
As for others with this crack, I have seen a couple and in them the chain guide was blasted off the front of the swing arm and it was just completely obvious that the chain broke, wrapped the output shaft and destroyed both the engine case and swing arm.
This will happen if you are unlucky when a chain breaks on all branded motorcycles I now of, but is rare on all motorcycles I know of as well.
As for BMW's customer service, the data your shop sent in, and the FSE's thoroughness in investigating your specific issue. Im inclined to think that all 3 sucked, which unfortunately tends to be par for the industry.
In the car world, an FSE would have layer his own eyes on your vehicle in person had there been question, which to my mind there CERTAINLY was!
To those riding F8's still. You can't do anything to spot a casting flaw unless you disassemble the engine, but there are things you can do to reduces the chances of breakages that are not warranty, as apposed to this breakage that I tend to believe was warranty.
1: Try to replace chains before they break. You can't always tell and occasionally you will pick up a rock just right and break a good chain, but sighting straight down the chain from behind the back wheel will usually show stiff links and stretched side links long before they break.
Personally I think the oe chains are mediocre, as with all oe chains. EK makes the best chain I've ever found, and DID makes the best web pages and advertisements though they make very good chains as well once you get up into the high dollar ones.
2: Make sure the swing arm bolt is properly torqued. It has a crush nut, and if you were part of the chain recall, this crush nut was not replaced but lock-tited on. either will hold it weather loose or torqued, but if its under torqued the engine tabs get hammered
3: I am not a fan of bracing the upper shock bolt. When properly torqued the oe bolt is relatively strong and also the fuse for rear suspension overload. If you need stronger then stock, you are pushing the bike harder then it was intended, which is awesome, but you may run into other breakages that are far higher dollar to fix.
I don't think any of this would have saved Flashback, and his criticism of BMW to my mind is fully justified, but there are others who have broken the engine case with chain breaks that wrapped the output shaft, loose swing arm bolts which are likely a dealer fault, and beating the crap out of the bike which on any brand will break things.
Flashback, good luck my friend, stay in-touch. sorry this didn't turn out better, but happy to see you aren't letting it get you too down.
I never ran the stock chain. I heard about so many failures that I simply put on a new DID x-ring 525 chain.
I have never had a DID x-ring chain break on me. I run them on all my dirt bikes and sport bikes.
As far as your failure goes it is most likely that when the stock chain broke it may have wraped around the counter sprocket and cracked the engine case and then skipped off the sprocket and partially unwrapping enough to make it appear like it did not stress the swing arm mount. Still BMW has a very poor response to your situation,
Is the chain not covered under warranty? Was it overly stretched due to mileage? Why did the stock chain fail?
So they are saying they will replace a broken chain under warranty but not the damage it does to the bike?
Lame Lame Lame warranty service is now the norm for BMW.
They will pay for their arrogance in the near future.
I viewed pictures that Flashback sent me, That chain did not wrap, or if it did, it somehow didn't damage the chain guide between the swing arm and output sprocket, nor in front of it.
As for the chain, they are not under warranty at all and considered a wear item.
The chain should not be under warranty for wear. But what about premature failure.
What if the chain broke within the first 10 miles driving home from the dealer?
Like I said the whole reputation BMW built over the last 50 years goes down the toilet with their ignorant manufacturing short cuts using some poor quality components and arrogant warranty claims attitude.
Great comments as usual Joel.
Is there not a documented history of repeated chain failure on the F800?
I heard somewhere the OE chain was Eastern Europe sourced? True?
Did BMW change chain suppliers at any point? Any facts you know surrounding this issue?
You are NO DOUBT a BMW expert, specifically the F800GS. But I'm not sure how much experience you have with chain drive bikes.
I find some long time BMW riders not really "up to speed" on chains, having ridden shaft drive bikes most of their lives.
I pretty much concur with Indy Unlimited's remarks about DID. I've used EK, but mostly stayed with DID X Ring chains since 1997: 250,000 miles on several different bikes. EK are OK if you get their BEST chain. I used one on my '99 Tiger in Europe for two long tours, no off road. By 15K miles the EK was on the way out. Not horrible, but I generally go over 25K miles safely on the DID VM-2 X ring.
I've ridden dirt bikes since age 10. Raced at Ascot Park(flat track on 250 Bultaco) and raced AMA Enduro (B rider) for 8 years. I haven't broken a chain since the 60's riding old Triumph's, BSA's, Huskies and Bultaco's in the desert.
A few years back in Baja I was charging down a nice rocky downhill. Suddenly the bike locked up (XR250R) and slid to a stop! WTF! ?? A rock had lodged between chain and rear sprocket. The stock DID 520 chain (mid level O ring chain) did NOT break, just locked up the wheel. I've caught rocks a few times, but very rarely. I never broke a chain as a result.
A broken chain is simply UNHEARD of on modern bikes. BMW clearly have a problem of some kind if the F800's are breaking chains. If they were breaking DID X ring chains (very tough chain) then I could only imagine something in the geometry of the linkage/swingarm design would be at fault, placing undue force on the chain? (a wild guess here) You would be the one to make this determination ... my point is : It is NOT EASY to break a DID X ring chain.
Modern, high quality chains don't stretch until right at end of life, don't break and really need very little maintenance. Only a rank beginner or someone really NOT paying attention would let their chain get to the point where it could break. It would make SO MUCH noise one could hardly miss the racket or miss the rough feel through the bars. Any comments appreciated.
PS: How is the new job?
The stock chains are made here. http://czretezy.cz/en/produkty/retezy-motocyklove/motorcycle-chains-catalogue/. There was a recall of the original chains. Mostly in Europe and all of those were on 2008 bikes, with some listed as 2009 models.
My bike was manufactured in 7/08 and did not make the cut.
According to CZ the replacement chains were spec'd by BMW and most bikes got the new version. Whether BMW spec'd the first one is unknown, but I remember looking at CZ's product list then and did not see a 525 chain.
I don't read Czeck to see if the specs are listed, but if you do there is the webpage.
Some manufacturers do and the tensile strength seems to run from 7000-9000 ft lbs for a 525 chain. Not a place to scrimp, so I bought a good one right after buying the bike.