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F800GS One wheel in the grave?

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Cyrotronix, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. Cyrotronix

    Cyrotronix Should I do it? ... I'm going to do it.

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Oddometer:
    18
    Location:
    Michigan
    Greetings all, long time lurker here hoping for some advice.

    I have a 2013 F800GS, almost 49,000 miles. I've owned it for 3 years and put 30,000 of those miles on myself. I'd like to think I know a thing or two about it, but I'm far from an expert.

    A couple weekends ago it had a nasty failure, the plastic gearwheels for the oil pump spun the teeth right off. I shut it off right away after hearing the top end get nice and loud. Today I put it back together with a fresh oil change of course. The motorcycle fired right up and seemed to be running great. I took it out for a test ride, no more than a mile and a half and while I was pulling back into my driveway the back tire locked up and the engine died. Wouldn't turn back over.

    My first assumption was there had been damage done from the lack of oil to the top end (Haven't ruled that out yet.) Brought the bike into the garage and let it set a moment. Tried starting it again. It turned over, but weakly. I let it sit a little longer (Maybe 2-3 minutes) and then it fired right back up like nothing was wrong. I let it run for a minute and it seemed fine, but I haven't touched it sense in fear of truly ruining the thing.

    I did not get a look at the temp gauge when it shut off (shame on me), but I can say that engine was hot hot hot. More so than I would consider normal for that short of a ride. Maybe I mucked something up when I was in there? Seems odd to me, the water pump is on the other side.

    Any ideas?

    Also, does anyone know how to check for oil pressure on that bad boy?

    Thanks in advance.
    #1
    bozmotodual16 likes this.
  2. Dorito

    Dorito Dreamer and Doer

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    Sounds more like an electrical issue. Have you checked the battery terminals? How old is the battery?
    #2
  3. heatmizr

    heatmizr n00b-tastic

    Joined:
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    Sounds to me like an oil passage is blocked, either by those plastic teeth or maybe some metal shards when it was getting low on oil the first time...?
    #3
    Arbolmano, FredRydr and cgguy09 like this.
  4. Pilotuh1b

    Pilotuh1b Been here awhile

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    Oddometer:
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    Any chance you pulled enough pieces out to rebuild the gear and see how much got lost into the engine?

    A piece could have strategically jammed somewhere stalling the engine and that would then lock the back wheel.
    #4
    cgguy09 likes this.
  5. The Maz

    The Maz Clueless and lost

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2013
    Oddometer:
    491
    Location:
    Medicine Hat , AB
    After this happened to me , a conrod bearing spun and toasted the engine.
    It's more expensive to buy a new crank and all the parts to rebuild, so I found a used motor off ebay and plunked that in.
    To tell you the truth, it sounds better than my motor did when it was new(2014 gsa)
    #5
  6. Cyrotronix

    Cyrotronix Should I do it? ... I'm going to do it.

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Oddometer:
    18
    Location:
    Michigan

    I pulled out as many of the pieces as I could. Some of them were mangled pretty badly and honestly I can't be sure if I got them all. That could be something very worth investigating, even it means it has to come apart again.
    #6
  7. Cyrotronix

    Cyrotronix Should I do it? ... I'm going to do it.

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Oddometer:
    18
    Location:
    Michigan

    I remember coming across a post where you spoke of this when I was investigating the issue originally. What happened when the bearing spun, did it lock up completely? Make any noises?
    #7
  8. bmwroadsterca

    bmwroadsterca RadioFlyer

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
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    Location:
    Lanark County near Ottawa ON
    You were asking about oil pressure checking....
    Early bikes had a pressure sensor. Later bikes don't but the port is there.. I don't know when they changed. Someone here will.
    I would think that the oil pressure is checked where the oil pressure sensor port is located up near the left intake. You can see the location in this photo.
    oiling_system.jpg

    I have a note that says the port is M12-1.5. I don't have firsthand knowledge however.

    Good luck.
    #8
    cgguy09 likes this.
  9. JRWooden

    JRWooden Homeless motorcycle vagabond ... and ... loving it

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6,422
    Location:
    The great state of confusion
    I've been sick wihch slowed me down otherwise I could be of more assistance.
    I bought one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0778XD4JT/
    Andthen an extra set of adapters from ebay as it wasn't clear the amazon item contained the right one.
    My plan is to test pressure using this setup on the sensoe plug inboard of the cam chain tensioner

    "You would think" the stripped gears would not get pumped back thru the engine do the the screen on the pick-up but ... I've not seen one up close.

    I'll post back when I have something worth saying...

    I have 95K miles on my bike and to the best I know my plastic gears are intact..............

    Q: WHY THE HELL ARE THE GEARS PLASTIC?
    Save money?
    qiueter
    better new bike sales pipeline?
    #9
  10. Pilotuh1b

    Pilotuh1b Been here awhile

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    I wouldn’t think they’d go through the engine but we are talking about gears under the cam cover. It “could” be enough to jam a camshaft and through the timing chain stall the engine? Possibly jam the timing chain or something?

    I’m not sure but I am guessing loose items inside the cam cover could stop an engine.
    #10
  11. heatmizr

    heatmizr n00b-tastic

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    I wouldn't think so but who knows. Since we know the gear stripped, check the obvious and cheaper items first.
    #11
  12. JRWooden

    JRWooden Homeless motorcycle vagabond ... and ... loving it

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    The oil pump drive gears are behind the clutch basket inside the left sidecover ...
    #12
  13. FinTec

    FinTec Been here awhile

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    2013+ is when they removed the oil sender and just plugged it. Yep, M12-1.5 thread. Easy to get to.

    And this is why I run an oil pressure sensor with BIG warnings if it drops.

    Be very interested to see the damaged part(s) if you have a chance. Did the oil pump gear fail or did something else happen that caused the gear to fail? Bummer this can happen. I consider these motors are nuke-proof by most standards. Just saw a couple on another thread who just did like 6 years on F800GSs with 170,000 miles. Wow.
    #13
  14. Cyrotronix

    Cyrotronix Should I do it? ... I'm going to do it.

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Oddometer:
    18
    Location:
    Michigan

    Up until this point the only thing I've had to do engine wise is replace my clutch. That being said, I am pretty hard on this machine. I'm a bigger guy and I can toss it around a bit which leads me to riding it like a dirt bike off-road.

    I got some pictures of the damage, the amount of damage really makes me wonder if there was / is something else going on, but up until this failure the bike operated fine. No power lose, no unusual noises from it. I fired it up went to take off and it suddenly got very loud. One thing I did notice when taking it apart is that the nut holding on the clutch basket was not to torque. It took little to no effort to break it free. Maybe it was allowing the gear behind the basket to move side to side? Both gears were damaged, as you'll see in the pictures.

    108244682_207881870564057_7231156809970212512_n.jpg 108082786_336145627413672_5879887989589484599_n.jpg 109099584_380702452890985_7962524884737189554_n.jpg
    #14
  15. Pilotuh1b

    Pilotuh1b Been here awhile

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    Oops, my bad. I was picturing the gears up top on the right. With pictures it looks like the parts are all quite small. More likely to block an oil gallery and cause lubrication issues leading to failure rather than stopping engine movement. Seems pretty quick though from what you’ve said.
    #15
  16. The Maz

    The Maz Clueless and lost

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    Yup, I had no warning. Just the loud rattle of the cam chain slapping around loose.
    I ask BMW about the oil pressure warning light and they told me "By the time you see the light, it is too late- damage already done and that is why they stopped putting them on".
    Whether that is true or not, it is what the stealership told me.
    #16
  17. The Maz

    The Maz Clueless and lost

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    This seems to be happening to more people with no reason behind the gear failure.
    When I tore down the motor, I could see no reason the pump gears would shear as they did.
    #17
  18. JRWooden

    JRWooden Homeless motorcycle vagabond ... and ... loving it

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    you were likely thinking of the water-pump drive gears.
    Comes off the end of one of the camshafts at different times those gears have been metal or plastic
    #18
  19. JRWooden

    JRWooden Homeless motorcycle vagabond ... and ... loving it

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    There are two oil pumps. I'm not sure about the "inner one", but it looks like the "outer" one could be services with the clutch basket removed ...
    did you have a look at it?

    Any special procedure to tighten/loosen the clutch basket nut? BMW has a special tool call-out but It's not obvious to me why...
    #19
  20. The Maz

    The Maz Clueless and lost

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    Location:
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    Yup.
    One on the left and one on the right side of the motor.
    After the conrod bearing failure, I tore the motor down to its soul. Nothing else looks bad but the crank. At least I have some big Tupperware containers full of spare parts now.
    BMW calls for special tools for everything.,,,
    #20
    JRWooden likes this.