F800gs pricing dilema

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by BykMyk, Dec 5, 2008.

  1. markit

    markit West Desert Rat

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    Eurastus, We need to find a third to cover frtom me to you. I have only ridden mine due west past five mile and the pony express trail. When I took a sidetrail up and over one of the canyons south of Simpson Springs some atvers asked about it because they couldn't believe I got through there. There were several deep water crossings that filled my boots full of water. Dang it was cold. Nice ride though. I can't believe that the F800GS is easier for me to ride off road than my XR650L.

    Let's get together sometime for a ride!
    #21
  2. lonerockz

    lonerockz Permanent n00b Supporter

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    What kind of relationship are we talking about here? If you need to spend money, its not a "relationship," its prostitution. A good dealer will be a good dealer no matter what. A bad dealer that treats customers poorly when they come in will not be better because you bought your bike from them. If you pay list price on a bike, and come back 5 years later for your next bike your dealer will expect you to pay list price again. In this economy there is no reason to pay list price on anything.

    Do you honestly think that your bike will get better treatment in the shop because you bought it from the sales department? If anything the dealer should show you why you should have bought it from them by giving you better service, not validating why you should have never bought it from them in the first place.

    Steve
    #22
  3. trustme

    trustme Long timer

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    Totally irrelevant, but I own a type of specialist contracting business. The repeat clients who provide the base load of my work I will walk on broken glass for , if they say jump , I say how high. It's all about a relationship
    The companies who are always screwing for a better deal , a sharper price always looking to reduce my margins & get more for less . They get told their business is of no value to me , if I am going to work for nothing I'd rather go riding. I have fewer clients , better margins & less headaches from the snivellers.
    #23
  4. Trout

    Trout Been here awhile

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    AKA - the good life. And I'm sure those who you work for are happy to recommend you only to people who will appreciate your work.
    #24
  5. LadyLisa

    LadyLisa Moving moving moving

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    I agree with Steve. When I buy mine I will be shopping for the best deal. I think the loyalty bit should start and end with the dealer, not you. If you buy out of town and service in town, then let them earn your loyalty back or go elsewhere. But before I bought out of town I would definately waive the lower offer at the in town dealer.

    Also, check out the dealer listings on ebaymotors.com That guy recently offered me free shipping, so I know there is some motivation there.

    Best of Luck on this.. and soon you'll be cruisin' on top of that sweet bike!
    #25
  6. lonerockz

    lonerockz Permanent n00b Supporter

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    I think the key to your post is the "specialist" part. But if you were to find your self in the position where your competition were able to deliver your quality and service for a lower price, even your dedicated customers would eventually move on, they would feel bad perhaps and might even say "I'm sorry, it's just business." Now I'm reasonably sure that your the kind of person that makes sure your quality and service can not be matched. All the really good contractors that I know are.

    Lets face it though, the F800 you buy from one shop is going to be a lot like the F800 you get from another. You are very fortunate that you are in the position to choose your clients. Many BMW dealers are also in the position that they can choose their F800 buyers. They can command MSRP because at this time there is a demand. But the nice thing about bikes is that you can separate the purchase from the service.

    I think BMW dealers are too used to being able to get MSRP. As we move into the worst economic times that most of us have ever seen, the few folks that can afford new bikes should realize that we are more in demand to dealers than thier bikes are to buyers. I'm lucky that all the BMW dealers close to me are just bike shops. I have no emotional attachment to them. I have several friends who are bike mechanics and they all talk about what horrible managment the local dealers have (not just BMW). "Just in it for the money," is a phrase that I hear often. So for me its an easy decision. I'll buy it from the cheapest place I can get it.

    Steve
    #26
  7. kadesean

    kadesean eyesuck Supporter

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    Day after Thanksgiving BMW shoppers trample a BMW of Wal-mart employee in an attempt to secure their door-buster deal on the new F800GS.

    To all those who don't think being in business is having a relationship with a customer/client--apparently you've never been in business. I'm not proposing blind loyalty, competition is a good thing. But if you buy strictly on price, be aware that you usually get what you pay for.
    #27
  8. divingbiker

    divingbiker True Blue Adventurer

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    I think I understand what you are saying, but am torn by your comment that "dealers are too use to being able to get MSRP".

    As a dealer in a TOTALLY unrelated business, I find that we (business owners) are often torn with making enough profit to stay in business and giving the customer a fair/honest deal so that he will be a loyal return customer. MSRP serves a purpose. If retailers are driven to the point of little or no profit to "make the sale", the dealer network will not be there too support the product that they sell. All to often it seems that customer loyality is driven by the bottom dollar or the cheapest price. But yet I find that this is usually the same customer that is the most difficult to deal with later.

    As for as some service guys that remarks "business owners are just in it for the money", I say if they are a good businessmen, they BETTER be in business for the money. Good businesses MUST stay profitable to stay in business.

    Look, I understand that we all (including myself) want to get the best deal. Just dont overlook or underestimate the benefit of a good relationship with your dealer. If a dealer in some remote location is a whole lot cheaper than everyone else, there is usually a reason why. The biggest reason is that his business is likely failing and he wont be there to support the sale. I say support the guy who runs a fair, honest, loyal, and yes profitable business so that he (the business) will be there in the future to support you. And because you likely will see a "thinning" of brick and morter stores in these tough economic times, it is even more important we support our "good dealers".
    #28
  9. mototrionic

    mototrionic interloper

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    I don't have familiarity with your unique set of circumstances, but the only people who favor paying MORE for the same product (new), ARE people in business who gain from milking a relationship to increase their margins. I respect relationships, and have bough way too many new vehicles from the same dealer just because of it...but they had to work to give me a commesurate deal.

    Now, the total cost in this case could include travel or shipping. But don't play into the hype - money is power, it's yours...and in this economy...well, it takes more than being a friendly business person to take more for the same product.

    BTW, I had to ship my GS800 from BMW of Nebrasksa (to Seattle) because of 3+ months wait time. A dealer in Oregon refused to sell me an unspoken for bike (wanted to show loyalty to his local market). I paid more shipping, and will pay my local dealership for service and accessories (where the $ is anyway).
    #29
  10. AdvSkier

    AdvSkier Been here awhile

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    If you are trying to build a good relationship with a particular dealer, over paying $700 is a bad place to start.

    First, if you have that many dealers so close to you, and one of them is willing to give you a great price, why not go with the dealer giving you the great price? It seems to me they want your business more than the one who isn't giving you the great deal. And they might be the better dealer because of that.

    If you are being overcharged at the initial purchase, do you think the dealer is going to under charge on service? If so, better think again.

    In my area you really are buying the dealer as much as the bike. And if the dealer charges full pop on a bike, chances are he's going to charge you full book rates on service. Which means, that if the book says a job can take 10 hours, you will be charged that even if the tech finishes it in 6.

    So I'd be a little carefull about starting a relationship with a dealer that only goes by retail pricing, because it might be a one sided relationship.
    #30
  11. lonerockz

    lonerockz Permanent n00b Supporter

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    DivingBiker, Which is it, you want a good relationship or its all about the money?

    Will you be my friend if I pay you more? If I break down on my Shiny new BMW on a Saturday night I will call a friend with a truck and he will come and rescue me. I somehow dont think my new buddy the BMW dealer is going to do this for free cause I paid sticker...

    If I'm a pain in the ass buyer, who is going to nickel and dime you on everything, I'm going to be that way no matter what. If I'm laid back and go with the flow, I'm going to be that way regardless of the money I spend.

    I got friends. I got relationships. I will buy my F800 for a fair price. It may just be sticker. If that is the best I can do when I buy mine, so be it. But I will walk out the door with the same number of friends that I walked in with.

    Steve
    #31
  12. divingbiker

    divingbiker True Blue Adventurer

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    Lonerockz Steve,
    Think you missed my point entirely but thats ok. My guess is that youve never owned your own business and that if you have, my guess is that you're no longer open.

    I am very pleased to report that in our business, we have outstanding relationships with our customers AND make a great living. As it relates to motorcycles, my guess is that there are dealers in all over the USA that enjoy this same business philosophy.


    If your ever in my part of the country, please stop by so my staff and I can show you how a business that focuses on customer service can have both.

    Well, gotta go. Making a HUGE bank deposit tomarrow from the KILLER weekend we had! :rofl
    #32
  13. kadesean

    kadesean eyesuck Supporter

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    just wait diving, you'll soon be hit with that 'obscene profit' tax:rofl
    #33
  14. 650VTwin

    650VTwin Been here awhile

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    I've confronted this question myself, and I've always ended up going back to my "local" dealer (i.e., the one closest to where I live). I've found that going to the dealership in person with a checkbook, a spec list, and a printout from Cycle Buy (www.cyclebuy.com) can put a little more downward pressure on the price of a bike.

    I have to add that good service is priceless, but a convenient location is, too. I'm lucky in having had good service from my local dealer, but if I didn't, it would be a real hardship to go further. The solution, of course is to do your own wrenching.
    #34
  15. BykMyk

    BykMyk Been here awhile

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    When I started this thread I didn’t know where it might go. First I want to thank the “collective” for all the thoughtful and valuable input. I found that everone’s input factored into my ultimate decision. I’m not a rich person so I appreciate the value of my money. I do my research and comparison shop. There is however a part of me that is less objective (Karma if you will) when making as important and costly purchase and that is: are there considerations beyond just price? These are tough economic times and it might be easy to capitalize on that fact and try to squeeze the last dime out of the deal but don’t the tough times apply to the dealer as well? My local dealer supports the local riding community, they offer their facility for club functions, contribute raffle gifts and sponsor/support events (they have hosted/contributed to downed rider fund raising events). True that it is still my money they are using but it is being used for the bike community. Do I have a part in this? Yes, I am the bike community. I’m not suggesting that the deal isn’t business, just that there is a place for ethics (for lack of a better word). With these considerations and my number crunching and research, I went back to my local dealer and hammered/negotiated what I feel is the most balanced and fair deal. I am proud to announce that I am a new F800GS owner! :clap
    Thanks to all for your input….lets ride
    Mike
    #35
  16. ABQTJ

    ABQTJ Been here awhile

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    That link doesn't seem to help with the BMW's...
    #36
  17. * SHAG *

    * SHAG * Unstable

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    :thumb
    #37
  18. M N B

    M N B would rather be riding

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    Gratz on the new ride! You probably paid a tad more, but for all the reasons you stated, I think you made a great choice. Your dealer makes it part of their business to work with the biker community. Your financial support helps ensure they can keep doing just that.

    I bought mine from a not that local dealer a few weeks ago. I would have gone more local except I've dealt with both more local dealers in the past (I own a 1997 K1100LT) and haven't been very happy with either one. So I went to a BMW dealer which is a 45 minute drive away if I slab it all the way (gasp!). However, I know one of the salesmen there, he's an avid contributor on a local forum I post on a great deal. So I decided I'd try the dealer and help out a friend at the same time.

    I did not get a smoking deal as it was the first non pre-sold unit they had. However, I got a slight break off MSRP without even asking and the extended warranty for free. I hung out there most of the day, chatted with my friend, lunched with some biker friends that came to the shop while I was there, got a bit of a deal without even having to negotiate. I love painless purchasing. And it won't stop there. I can get deals on accessories, too. Of course, the BMW accessories cost twice what they should, so that discount will bring them down from highway robbery to a simple mugging.

    Speaking of robbery, I need to go knock off a bank so I can afford some farkles for my nekkid F800GS...
    #38
  19. divingbiker

    divingbiker True Blue Adventurer

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    Mike,
    I am so happy for you on your new purchase and hope that you get as much satisfaction as I have on your new F800GS. It's a great bike.

    If you get a chance, post a picture of you and your new toy.
    #39
  20. MJS

    MJS Long timer

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    My local dealer is friendly and has a some great employees. I have spent thousands of dollars there for parts and accessories for my other bikes (HP2, R12GS and F650 single), yet their pricing for parts (over list) and service means I don't buy as much from them as I might. I'd like to support them but I also do not want / refuse to over pay. That means I spend my money elsewhere unless I need something in a hurry.

    These are commodity products and the same product is sold by many dealers. This is not the same as a service or custom product where the quality of the vendor is directly reflected in the product. BWOE, a Sony TV is the same whether bought from Best Buy, Circuit City or a local independent store. And the warranty is by the manufacturer, not the store. This is not the same as having a house built where the quality of the contractor directly translates to the quality of the finished goods. And the contractor is responsible for the warranty. Our bikes are TVs, not houses.

    I would still by a new bike from my local dealer if the price was good. But I would buy the same bike from another dealer if the price was better (after giving the local a chance to match the other price). For service I'd go to the dealer with the best quality mechanics as that quality is directly reflected in the service being purchased. (more like the house)

    Buy your commodity products from retailers who are efficient and well run (i.e. good price and customer service) and buy your services from retailers who provide great quality at a fair price.

    PS: glad you got a deal and were able to support your local dealer. Sounds like it was a win/win.

    Cheers,
    #40