F800GS Touratech 20lt fueltank - Who's got one???

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Wildman, Jan 30, 2009.

  1. Ceri JC

    Ceri JC UK GSer

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    I don't, if I can help it. I'm not exaggerating, trust me, you park a bike on the road with an easily removable and visually obvious fuel source (like a red Jerry can/rotopax) on the bike, overnight in some areas of somewhere like Glasgow or South London, one of three things will happen:
    1. If you're very lucky, nothing will happen. Do it for a week and I can guarantee you that it will.
    2. If you're lucky, they'll just steal the fuel to put in their own car/scooter.
    3. If you're unlucky, the kids who come across it will be under the age where it is any use to them and will use it to torch something "for a laugh", which might possibly be your bike.

    Why do I live there? I don't and I wouldn't; but I do work in these sort of places sometimes.

    -----

    Back on topic; I am still torn by the idea of the bigger fuel tank. I like the idea a lot, but the TT ones has too many concessions for the cost. Anyone heard of any other ones in the works?
  2. cobblecrazy

    cobblecrazy '15 KTM 1190 Adventure R

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    Thanks for the information. A few questions.

    Do you know if a quality "step drill bit" will work for the holes? I know the BMW mechanics at my local shop use this style when installing accessory plugs on the exterior plastics. they just mark the bit for the correct hole size, and it could be used for both sized holes (at least the one I have).

    In reference to your #3 above: This is the part I was most concerned about damaging either removing it, or re-installing it. Do you have any pictures of the tool you made to re-install?

    Referenceing #5: On page 10 of the instructions it talks about the venting hose, and I agree is seems as though they are a bit vague when it gets to this point. I don't know if you still have the instructions around to look at, but I was wondering if photo 29-2 is supposed to take the place of step 18 routing? It seems as though they have the European version then the USA version from the instructions.

    I would have liked for a few more pictures of the initial breakdown - as far as what needs to be totally disconnected, and/or what just needs to have the cable ties cut and pulled back out of the way.

    Attached Files:

  3. cobblecrazy

    cobblecrazy '15 KTM 1190 Adventure R

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    One more question.

    When I was at TT, I noticed they put two 1" by 1" velcro clippings on the top of the tank. What the tech told me was the bottom of the clamp for the hand protectors would rub on the top of the tank so these clippings were there to protect the tank from scratching.

    They had the 20mm bar riser installed. I was wondering if you have had the same issue. I was also wondering if it might just be the angle they had the clamp at, and a slight adjustment up/down on the bars, or the clamp, might be enough to correct this. The 20mm risers were included in the kit I have and I was going to install them anyway.
  4. reinerka

    reinerka Been here awhile

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    Yes, I'm still looking into another solution. I've got the BMW protectors and I can adjust the handlebar to either hit with the protector bar or with the turn indicator (neither is acceptable to me). I've got the 20mm bar risers as well and they are about 5mm to short.

    Reiner
  5. gr8ridn

    gr8ridn Been here awhile

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    A step drill might work, but the size of the steps has to be wider than the material being drilled. In the case of the tank you are boring through two layers of plastic molded together, the outer case and the inner liner. The combined thickness is about 8 mm as I recall. Most step drills are too narrow between stops for this. You will end up with a stepped hole, not good! I used a roto broach tool that cuts very similar to a hole saw. It cut a very clean hole with no fear of chipping the surfaces or cutting an eccentric hole. I have attached a photo of this tool. I am sure there are other tools to do the job, but I would not use a conventional drill bit, it won't leave a clean round hole you need to seal the fitting.

    Attached is a photo of my Pump ring tool. I made it from a steel plate. It worked perfectly and didn't damage the retaining ring. I cut a 3/8 square hole so I use a torque wrench to install the assembly after completing the tank modifications. As I recall it called for 35 NM.

    RE Venting: The end result was eliminating all the factory venting from the tank forward. A line is connected from the OEM tank to the "T" and then to the TT tank and out to atmosphere with no check valve between the tanks. This allows pressures to equalize between the tanks when transfer is occurring. The check valve is between the connecting T and atmosphere by the routing they show.


    I had a DVD Rom to go by to remove and replace the rear sub frame. It was pretty straight forward. The wiring going to the rear is on the left side and after disconnecting the connectors on the tail and cutting the tie wraps you have to remove the ECM and and the rear brake reservoir. Thats about it. Take pictures of the routing and tie wrap locations so it all goes back together as it should.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  6. gr8ridn

    gr8ridn Been here awhile

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    My kit was supplied with the TT 20mm risers. I used the ROX risers I had previously installed. With this set up I have had no issues with tank clearance in lock to lock turns. I can't say if the TT riser is sufficient for clearance. I really like the ROX system in that it allows better options to get the handlebars moved to your preference of pull back and height. I am using the TT hand protectors, I don't know if other hand guards would be a problem like Bark Busters etc.
  7. cobblecrazy

    cobblecrazy '15 KTM 1190 Adventure R

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    Thanks for all the information.

    At one time I was thinking about using the ralle-moto steering damper that has 20mm rise built in. I wonder if it might be usefull with the larger tank for off-road ventures (I use them on my dirt bikes), but I haven't made any plans to actually buy one yet. For right now I'm going to try the TT risers because that's what I have.

    The DVD you talked about, was that the f800 maintenance manual one, or something else?
  8. gr8ridn

    gr8ridn Been here awhile

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    Yes, I was referring to the BMW Motorrad Repair Manual, F Models on DVD
  9. Bill the Duck

    Bill the Duck Unwitting Accomplice Supporter

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    OK, so I'm getting a garage full of gas fumes when the front tank is full. Anybody else having this issue? I see no obvious leaks.
  10. gr8ridn

    gr8ridn Been here awhile

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    Check to see if the check valve is installed between the "T" and atmosphere. Also the factory check valve at the rear of the BMW tank should have been removed. You have to be careful about overfilling the TT Tank. The cool stored gas from the underground tank will expand once it is filled into your tank. That check valve to atmosphere needs to have the arrow pointing in toward the tank so it restricts flow out but ready allows air flow in to equalize pressure in the tanks as fuel is consumed. Any of this wrong will result in pressure build up in the tanks. Done right the tanks remain equalized with atmosphere.
  11. reinerka

    reinerka Been here awhile

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    Not having your issue. However when I first picked it up after the install the overflow from the stock tank was dripping consistently. They didn't route it into the TT tank and thus with a petcock open it would continue to fill the stock tank which then would overflow at a slow and steady rate.

    Reiner
  12. Bill the Duck

    Bill the Duck Unwitting Accomplice Supporter

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    So if "done right", I can have both tanks full, petcocks (<- funny word) open? I figured I would need to keep the petcocks (heh) closed until the main was down to about 1/3 or so... It would be very cool not to have to mess with the...you know.
  13. reinerka

    reinerka Been here awhile

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    Yes, that is how I use the TT tank. The instructions indicate what you say but checking with TT resolved the issue. No problems after 12K miles with doing this all the time.

    Reiner
  14. gr8ridn

    gr8ridn Been here awhile

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    If I understand what you are saying you keep the petcocks open all the time? Also are you saying Touratech said this was fine?

    Seems like we are putting a lot of faith in the seal of the underseat tank fuel cap. Any small nick or seal wear (like when shoving in a fuel nozzle) will result in a leak until you either shut off the valves or the fuel equalizes below the filler cap. I sure wouldn't want to park the bike in my garage with both tanks full and the petcocks open.:kboom

    another issue would be topping up the fuel when less than 3 gallons have been consumed. This could happen when preparing to start a long stint with no fuel for several hundred miles(Dalton Highway or Trans Labrador comes to mind). Opening the fuel cap would result in a large spill of gas under pressure at the gas station.:kboom

    Of course none of this has happened to you so I can see where you would freely give this advise. I don't get the warm, fuzzy knowing the fuel cap next to my butt is pressurized and ready to leak with the slightest sealing flaw while I happily feed it highway. I think I will stick with the operating procedure supplied by Touratech. It makes sense to me. YMMV
  15. jacinto

    jacinto Been here awhile

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    well I dit it like this:

    I have it installed with the 2 sides of the tank connected on the vent hose of the main thank.
    The hose is also over the dashboard so I can fill the tank with the petcocks open and he do not overfill the main thank.
    The advantages are:
    -petcocks always open,
    -no drilling in to the main tank.
    - not possible to overfill the main thank

    Last year i have driven this system with a jerrycan for 10000km an it works perfect, when the main tank lowers it sucks the gasoline from the jerrycan, now the tt-tank.

    greatings
  16. chadams

    chadams Been here awhile

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    Can you please put up some photos of how you have the of the connection at the breather of the main tank, thanks.
  17. gr8ridn

    gr8ridn Been here awhile

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    Interesting, that is some creative thinking. How do you now vent the main tank? I don't understand how it vents while fuel is being transfered. Perhaps a photo or diagram would help. I am a bit of a skeptic when you use the vent which among other things is designed to relieve positive and negative tank pressure and also have it transfer fuel which requires negative pressure to work. If the vent requires vacuum for fuel transfer it can't equalize tank pressure as designed. The fuel tank can fail from expansion or contraction. These pressures change for many reasons such as altitude and temperature change as well as fuel usage.

    I think Touratech could have saved a boat load of trouble and money if they didn't have to use bulkhead connections. My guess is their engineers decided this was the safest and most reliable solution while staying within budget and engineering principles.

    I have considered adding in-line electric fuel valves to the transfer lines so all I would have to do is throw a switch to transfer fuel when the main tank was low. Also the valve would close automatically when the bike was off so fueling and parking concerns would be addressed. What I found was there is little room for these valves and it did add another layer of complexity. At the end of the day I decided to keep it simple.

    Have fun with your long range, I sure enjoy what this did for my bike.
  18. jacinto

    jacinto Been here awhile

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    well,

    the best things are the simple things, and that is never coming from an engineer.:D
    the venting of the tank, i explain it.
    the air runs into the tt-tank, so the venting is placed like the mounting instructions from tt.
    than i connect the two sides of the tank, from there i connect a hose (over the top of the instruments) to the vent of the main tank.
    so if the main tank lowers he is restracting (normal he takes air) the fuel from the tt-tank and the tt-tank takes the air from his normal vent hose,
    you put everything in one line.
    This is tested before, there are very much G650X riders who ride with an extra aluminium tank (made in holland http://www.hotrodwelding.nl/product.php?id=3 ) who works the same (so it wasn't my idee but it works fine).
    i have try ith with a 2x5L canister into two tt-side bags on my journey in marocco and ith works perfect.
    the advantage is also that i can sell it later without having to buy a new fuel tank.

    greatings and keep it simple
  19. reinerka

    reinerka Been here awhile

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    I can see your hesitation. But for one the guys at Touratech themself have said that is how they run the bike and it is fine - I've got that in writing so I'm ready should your fear become reality :D .

    Whe topping up I know the mileage I've done so far. I'm not topping up the main tank until I've reached about 250 miles. So that never is a real issue. Even if I miss 0.5 gallons (about 25 miles range) it is not an issue.

    Even if you open the petcock at 1/4 of the tank remaining you still have a pressurized filler cap. So I don't bother any more and its pressurized all the time. Believe me if there is a problem you'll notice early enough. The gas cap is opposite the can - so the fire risk is lower than you might think.

    Reiner
  20. Corona

    Corona Dreaming of Dreaming

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