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Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by Gixxer2go, May 16, 2005.
No problem! I haven't gotten around to ordering mine but will likely do it tomorrow.
Just want share my experinces for setting up carbs. At the moment my settup is following:
- stock needles, raised one step
- stock pilot / main jets
- mixture screws out about 1,5 turns
- Sebring carbon racing cans
Bike is pulling nicely with no hesitation even with low rpm. You need choke for cold start, but when warm bike starts easily. In de-accelaration it is "popping" enough to make people on sidewalks to stare.
I did the same except with FMF cans and the bike runs great. Starts easy, no surging, and pulls hard. I'm at 400' MSL.
I'll be trying the factory pro kit in the next few weeks and I'll let everybody know how it turns out.. so far I have vented externally vs internally last weekend and it stands up immediately from 2k rpm and wouldn't do that before so I think there is something about venting the carbs.. or maybe I'm just leaning it out and it was running too rich in the first place. sure runs a lot more crisp now though.
I vented mine outside and it's got some fluttering at freeway speeds. I had the vent in just the right place before the motor went shit but I don't remember where it was. I was thinking of putting the vent inside. Any ideas on internal vs. external venting.
I believe that most of the Factory Pro setups that are listed here are with the venting on the inside and that is how mine is as well.
The stock setups that I've run and others usually have the venting to the outside.
I have pulled the Factory Pro needles and went back to the stock. The tech at my dealer made some recomendations that I followed but not much was said about the vent. I did run into the service gal at a local campout and she was under the impression that the tech told me to put the vent in the box. I would ask him but he doesn't work there anymore. The bike runs great (other than some oil leaks) but flutters at freeway speeds. It looks like I'm gona be going in there tonight and putting the vent back in. I'll report back when I test it.
Talked to the guy at FP and he is telling me some things that are a little different than what I'm hearing here. I'm used to jetting based on throttle position and he is saying do it by wot and look at the rpm range for each circuit (pilot, needle, main). Mostly stick with the factory pro recommendations for a starting point and absolutely do the top speed at wot for the main and work your way back to wot at 5-7k rpm for the needle and you know the drill for the pilot. The point is once the main is set dont mess with it even if your moving the clip. I'm on round one and its just about what I'm looking for but sputters up top so I'm going down from 175/180 to maybe 165/170. I don't want to fatten up the mid as well as it's running there so I'll try to leave the clip.
He did also say 2 machines completely identical will probably need different jetting so there is no magic combination just work at it.
Time to set up the stock needle...... New settings
Pilot = FP #45
Needle= stock (2nd from top)
Mains = 155, 158(I'll give 158 a go)
Vents = "as original" outside
1.5 Turns (bit rich)
Wideband fitted again........
Autostream motivated me.... http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1893963#post1893963
It just made sense to me after what we have been doing with FP, but I had not thought of this. Haven't had time to ride it yet
Way to go
Thank you autostream
Just did close to the final touch on the FP kit on my 950. I really tried to do what they said,, start with the main and idle and adjust the needle last but I ended up where everyone else did anyway..
pilot 42 2.5 turns
FP needle in 4th positon
155/160 mains ?? not sure if this is maximized
carbs vented outside
stock fuel level/not checked
KTM racing exhaust
sommer airbox mod
all smog stuff gone
I'm still getting some bogging from the carb vents getting turbulence.. Any ideas? I'd put them inside the airbox but the throttle response seems poorer if i do. Does anybody really test their main jets by top speed? what speeds are you getting with the right mains? I can hardly get past 130 mph.
I ended up venting the carbs inside the airbox. It does have some hesitation on initial acceleration but everything else is much better. If I just roll the throttle on there is no issues. If I just grab gas fast, then a little lag. I rode home yesterday in 25-35mph cross winds and not a wimper from the carbs only the rider. That 950 wanted to set sail.
Are you going to give the FP needles @ 5 with the 157/162 mains a try?
Tony I did give them a go and they felt ok.... I was using the wideband on the car at the time so I am not sure of the effect on the A/F ratio.
Then I read Autostream's comments on his jetting experience. It just makes so much sense. My reason for lifting the needles was to get the fuel needed of idle. Reducing the Idle jet to get back a good idle A/F R. There was still a compromise as to weather the mid range or WOT was the best ratio.
Then there is Mark's comments on the carb vents. He shot himself in the foot when he rewrote the vent comment on his web site. When it comes to the LC8 he doesn't know what he is talking about. He implies that the vents are on the carb side of the air filter, but they are not!
Basically..... the FP kit is RUBBISH..... Their jet recommendations are BULL SHIT, a waste of money and time.
I hate to say this but..... KTMAX is right about this FP kit
The #45 pilots are all that is needed to correct this bikes carb problems.... Every thing else stock. Make sense really...... to-lean a pilot for emissions....
1.5 turns out.... seams to work well. I will stick with this. I am also happy with the 155 & 158 main combination and should be fine on a water cooled motor.
Well KTMax is using stock pilots (#42) as well as a half step on the second clip.
Have you tried his setup with your A/F reader?
I'd be curious to see how this setup compares with KTMax's and how the FP #5 157/162 #38 pilot compares!
So much to do so little time! :eek1
What I meant was that his comment on FP was correct ie "RICH RUBBISH"...... Max's settings are dubious as he would be sworn to secrecy on Sommer's settings..... ,and rightfully so, as they are in business to sell their information.
Do your self a favor.... stick those $100 #45 pilots in and set everything back to stock ..... then you will know what I mean.....
All I know is when I roll on the gas with the stock setup 42/#3/155/160 it has a little lag. If I grab the choke at the same time I roll on the throttle it responds with better power. from (1/8 to past 1/2 throttle at least)The damn thing just likes gas. I'm still ready to try tuning the fp but I may end up back here saying the same thing you are.
I do agree that with the FP recommendations its swimming in fuel but it runs best there too! (for me that is) best throttle response and best power.
Is it possible that we are all just not paying enough attention to our mods and fuel height and that is why we are all heading in different directions?
I have a friend running the Stock Needles Clip 2.5/ #45 pilot and 155/160 mains at 1.75 turns out on my recommendation. I'll see how he liked it since he didn't pre-test it before heading to Mexico!
I have another friend running #3 Stock needles /#42 pilot and 155/160 at 1.75 turns out and our bikes run very close. He doesn't get the mileage of my other friend even when they were both at #3 clip? Weird. :huh
Motoman250F #2 from the top is the stock position
The AFR's sit between 12 - 13.5 on the new set up. When you grab the throttle it is closer to 12..... cruse... 14 really smooth with no flat spot. Idle at 11.7
I have used it for a week, and love it.... my vents are outside again.
Tony your friend in Mexico should be fine and happy
The vents inside make it run leaner for me with my prefilter. This may have been your rich area....... 2mm should be the stock float height... I wrote mine down, but lost it..... so I was waiting for someone to verify....
My friend that went to Mexico reported excellent results and much better response below 5k rpm. No fluff at altitude and very crisp. Mileage was 40-46 mpg!
Looks like it's back to stock with $100 #45's! :grinner