FactoryPro Jet Kit...cure for what ails your carbs!

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by Gixxer2go, May 16, 2005.

  1. ktmnate

    ktmnate Long timer

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    I have talked to Luv2lean about his 950 and his runs perfectly. No back-firing nothing. His is an '04 with the Akrapovic, Home made air box mod and the needle's raised one notch. He still has the canister crap on his bike but the damn thing runs good. There had been some mention of KTM using different jets with different years. I havn't confirmed anything other than my '05 compaired to an '04 which responded differently to the carb mods. I too thought it was kind of wierd but I still don't have an answer.
    #21
  2. crisgen950

    crisgen950 n00b

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    I have read your very interesting post. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>

    I write from <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Italy</st1:place></st1:country-region> and I have a KTM 950 oranges 2004. <o:p></o:p>

    Before reading your post I have had the same idea of the Factory Pro Kit. <o:p></o:p>

    I wanted really to change the jet needles and the main Jets (175 front and 180 rear). <o:p></o:p>

    In more self I wanted to detach the pipe that brings the vapors of the oil from the carter motor to the box filter of the air to avoid that warm air entered the carburetors. <o:p></o:p>

    I have also removed the EPC and the SAS. <o:p></o:p>

    My curiosity is to know if the jet needles used by the Factory Pro Kit are the same of series (oem) or they have a different code. <o:p></o:p>

    The motorbike of series covering jet needles NDFB while I'm looking for the jet needlesNDFA. <o:p></o:p>

    I know that the jet needle with code NDFA are those that use in the competitions.<o:p></o:p>

    The factory Pro Kit use NDFA jet needle? <o:p></o:p>

    Thanks
    #22
  3. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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    I think that this is the answer to your question. I have copied it from the factory pro web site. Here http://66.47.68.116/products/jets.html

    I got really tired of trying to use the original
    Keihin numbering / profile codes, so I made my own.
    Very nice if you have everything perfect at every throttle position except for 1/4 and only want to change that 1 thing!


    Mark produces his own needles in titanium, but this would be hard to do from the beginning...... so he would have used something he had in stock probably NDFA.

    Could you tell me something about NDFA as this is new information for me.
    Are there any data sheets available?

    I have been tuning with a wideband http://wbo2.com/ , but the standard needle has the wrong shape. I can get it to run perfect everywhere, but not at the same time :baldy

    These Factory kits are available to you from Sommer in Almond.

    Needles are easy to measure. It would be good if someone could measure the factory Pro needle, or the NDFA, I have done the standard one. PM me and I will tell you how.

    Also WELCOME TO THE LIST...... How much I love Italy:freaky and Nassra Asi... or something like that
    #23
  4. crisgen950

    crisgen950 n00b

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    Thank you very much for your welcome :1drink

    I know the code of jet needle NDFA because they are those that use in the competitions.
    This information I have had from the mechanic of Fabrizio Meoni :wink:
    and they're the jet needle that use the KTM 950 for competition Paris/Dakar ecc. ecc..
    They works from 0/0 to 4/4. :D
    I will look for all the possible ways to find these jet needle NDFA and if I succeed I'll send you the specifications.
    Regards to everyone and to ADVRIDER
    :thumb
    #24
  5. Doug Matson

    Doug Matson Long timer Supporter

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    All the poping on mine was gone the minute I removed the SAS crap. It opens up to let fresh air in under decel. I have done all the mods but on steady cruise I still get some surge so I may try the Factory Kit.
    #25
  6. smthmp

    smthmp Internal Combustophile

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    I'll add one more thumbs up for the Factory Pro Jet kit. When I got mine ('04 950) it ran fair. It felt lean to me (surging at low RPM), and the popping was terrrible. Stalled at idle sometimes, and sometimes when letting off gas to idle. I immediately plugged the SAS inlet at the airbox and it had no effect. Local KTM dealer recommended the FP jet kit and I had it installed with no other mods at about 150 mi. I was afraid the thing was running so lean it was going to hurt the motor. I didn't want to wait until the first service. After the Jet kit, it ran much better and the popping was gone. At the 600 mi service I had the shop do canisterectomy, SASectomy, and install Wings (with the spark arrestors). They upped the mains 1 size each carb and moved the needles (sorry can't remember which way) and ran it on the dyno. They weren't happy after the first dyno run and pulled it back apart and moved the needles again. They were happy after the second run. They said it was 1 hp down on the Akropovic installs they had done. It runs flawlessly now. No flat spots, no popping (just a nice Ducati burbble on decel). Runs smooth at steady throttle with no surging anywhere. Oh, gas mi. Recently did a 1000 mi trip. Probably 50 mi off road, 40 mi interstate, and the rest 2 lane at 50-70 mph. (mostly running about an indicated 63 mph) Consistently at 42mpg.
    Paul
    #26
  7. RedFlash

    RedFlash Go Cubs!

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    Has anyone tried the kit with down-sized mains from the "example" setup? It is a nice kit and the options are manifold (sorry, just had to :nod )

    The jump from 160'ish to 175/180 seems large. I was going to experiment with 170/175 first and move from there. I have the Wings cans on the way and would like to:

    >Lose the surging cruising on the throttle;
    >Reduce the warm-up choke time;
    >Have the best setup from 500' to 6000' above the briny deep.

    Ya', I want it all!

    :thumb
    #27
  8. KTMax

    KTMax Ninth of the Nazgul

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    Nope. SAS doesn't do anything on decel as it stops working altogether when you close the throttle. This is to prevent extra/eccessive popping. It only bleeds fresh air into the exhaust ports under load.

    I've removed SAS too with the excellent blanking plates from Katoum :thumb and - as expected - didn't make any difference for exhaust popping or performance. It just cleans up the engine area by losing the hoses, valves etc.

    It has been posted on this forum many times before but for some reason it seems hard to believe for most. When a carburated engine doesn't pop on decel the idle mixture is (much) too rich. Hence the reduced or even eliminated choke time. So instead of being happy that it doesn't pop anymore, it should cause concern... :augie

    A (too) rich mixture is more harmful for an engine than a lean mixture. The silence on decel is actually shouting 'Hey man, I'm drowning in fuel here!'... :1drink
    #28
  9. motoman250f

    motoman250f Been here awhile

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    I'm buying more and more of what your saying here but the popping is just a pilot jet or air screw issue right? How it runs from 1/16 throttle up to wide open is more of a concern for the needles right?
    Also are you running stock needles and would you suggest a person open up the air screws more if there is no popping? Thanks?
    #29
  10. BjornH

    BjornH Registered User

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    My "new" -04 ran really lean out of the crate, with noticeble hesitation on roll-on, surging and fierce popping on decel.

    Now, with Acras + airbox mod + rejet (#165/#170) + stock needles up 1, it runs great!
    Still popping on decel, but good power, no surging at part load and good pick-up at every rpm. I can even go as low as 2000 rpm without problems. Still feels like there may be some more to be had on top, but I saw 207 km/h - and climbing - the other day. (17-sprocket)

    What top speeds to you get?

    Does anybody have any dyno-graphs to show?

    I just ordered the carb kit for good measure. Why stop if there is more to be had?!

    All the stock EPC/SAS etc is still on the bike, and a 16-sprocket is waiting in the toolbox. Haven´t gotten around to the cleaning up and the fine-tuning yet.
    #30
  11. KTMax

    KTMax Ninth of the Nazgul

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    Both. The graph below (from Keihin BTW) shows where and how the different fuel circuits and components work and interact throughout the throttle range. NOT to be confused with rev-range as a lot of people do...

    The idle circuits - the idle mixture screw (IMS), pilot/slow jets for both fuel and air - work up to almost half throttle. With CV carbs like we have even a little further. The idle circuit is regarded as the most important and most difficult part of the carb setup 'cos it has a strong influence on how an engine reacts and feels on the throttle. It's the deciding circuit for driveability, starting, idling, throttle pickup etc.

    [​IMG]


    If you're running stock needles (raised one clip) and jets, the best way - the only way to be honest - is to sync the carbs and hook up a gas analyser to set the CO-level at 4.2%. Counting turns is rough and very inaccurate. I'd only use it as a road-side measure. If you use a gas analyser the mixture screws will end up in very different positions for the same CO-level as the front and rear cylinders don't behave the same, hence counting turns is far from accurate.

    This is where the two bolds at the headerpipes are for. With open cans you put the analyser in the cans at the rear too but NOT with the stock cans! Any half decent bike shop has a gas analyser nowadays. With this procedure you'll have a healthy burble and mild popping on closed throttle. As it should!... :thumb A rich mixture fauls up the engine, damages the oilfim, wastes fuel and performs less. All things you don't want I'd say...

    BTW, this is not to be confused with going from a poor (too lean) stock setup, choked and starving for fuel, to a (too) rich setup like with Factory. Then the rich mixture is an improvement ("Geez, this kit is great!")... But it's still going from a bad setup on one end off the scale to a little less bad setup on the other end...
    .
    #31
  12. wsmc99

    wsmc99 Been here awhile

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    So did you find a good setting with this kit? It seems they have researched it and provided a good base point?
    #32
  13. wsmc99

    wsmc99 Been here awhile

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    The Dyno chart on the website is not done with stock exhaust ie "emissions & noise regs". It is done with Akros and stock jetting, then changed the jetting/needles.

    Green: Akrapovic exhaust and stock jetting
    Blue: Akrapovic exhaust with quiet core and Factory Pro jet kit
    Red: Akrapovic exhaust with NO quiet core and Factory Pro jet kit
    #33
  14. KTMax

    KTMax Ninth of the Nazgul

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    Yes I know. Pretty easy to produce such graphs. With the stock needles and jets too. We've been down this road before. Take a bone stock bike, a noise & emission choked to death So-Cal model prefferably, and you have good bad point to start with. Fit Akra's and the mixture gets even worse as it leans off further. Then richen things up, too much or not, and bang... there it is, a good improvement over stock. Wow... that's amazing... :D

    Proper CO-level, stock needles raised one notch and the $10 open airbox corver gives exactly the same improvement. Without being too rich.

    It's a shame they don't put the air-fuel graphs of these runs on the site too. But maybe that would explain too much... :1drink

    But this is an old discussion, forget about it. I was only addressing the exhaust popping.
    #34
  15. chasfactor

    chasfactor Been here awhile

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    I need some advice about the factory pro kit, etc. I have a 04 950 w/3K, needle raised one setting, sommer airbox screen, FMF cans. I have minor/slight popping on decelarations.

    I am traveling to Alaska from Denver in July/Aug :) What might optimal jetting be? Needle settings?

    I handed the bike in today for 4.5K service and asked to have the factory pro kit installed. The LC8 Tech said maybe I dont really want it?

    Opinions welcome and thanks!

    Chas Walter
    Tulsa OK
    #35
  16. Killer Whale KTM

    Killer Whale KTM Life is the adventure!

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    chasfactor,
    I have a very similar set up.I went with the 175,180 jets and the 45 pilot.At first I had the needles in the third slot (from top) But my mid range was to fat (rich).Second notch is perfect!Thanks to all the guys who helped me by posting!! Make sure your carb venting issues are taken care of.All of my past problems were from improper venting.(again thanks to advrider I figured it out) Check out the search feature for carb venting,sas,epc,canestectomy removal and you should be all set.Good Luck
    Killer Whale KTM
    #36
  17. msusslin

    msusslin DirtMeister

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    BTW, this is not to be confused with going from a poor (too lean) stock setup, choked and starving for fuel, to a (too) rich setup like with Factory. Then the rich mixture is an improvement ("Geez, this kit is great!")... But it's still going from a bad setup on one end off the scale to a little less bad setup on the other end...

    KTMAX Quote right on the point

    All I can tell you Factory Pro's kit recommended setup sucks and should not be installed without the use of a dyno. What a waste of money and time and not to mention the performance difference. Even based on having talked to the service reps at Factory Pro before installing the kit per there recommended setup at my first service, which by the way is from 2003. I spend more money to have the bike checked on a dyno and here is what we found. The recommendations from Factory pro are so bad it won't even run up to redline and only pulls 85 horse since it won't even reach 9400rpm. It's way to rich all away around and it appears that getting a decent setting with the kit is difficult in midrange, due to the taper on the needle. We ended up with stock needle, 160 / 165 stock mains and 42 pilot. Now the bike pulls great and runs free versus that sludgy too much fuel burning setup recommended. The dyno curve with that setup certainly supports how it runs (92 horse at 9400 rpm). Factory pro recommends 175 / 180 mains and 45 pilot with the Titanium needle.
    #37
  18. FarmerRick

    FarmerRick Long timer

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    Do you happen to remember where your air mixture screw ended up being set? I at 2.75-3.0 turns out and still getting idle lag (higher rpms for a few seconds prior to settling down to regular idle when coming off of the throttle). I started out at 2.5 and it was much worse. 3.0 is better but not perfect. Before I pull the skin off again, it would be good to hear what other settings are.

    Rick
    Franklin, TN
    #38
  19. wsmc99

    wsmc99 Been here awhile

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    Just test rode my 950 with the kit and the pipes on it.
    Seems perfect. Solid Idle, no surging, a little pop on decel, pulls like a mother and good transitions.
    Headed to Laguna Thursday for a full test, but all looks to be in order.
    We'll see what the mileage looks like, of course it's really fun to twist her open now! :evil
    #39
  20. Chipper

    Chipper Been here awhile

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    Any info on what air screw and needle clip setting on dyno run? 1 lower than stock on needle and 2.5-3.0 on screw?
    #40