FactoryPro Jet Kit...cure for what ails your carbs!

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by Gixxer2go, May 16, 2005.

  1. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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  2. wsmc99

    wsmc99 Been here awhile

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  3. Katoum

    Katoum Adventurer

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    While I tried the #45 pilot again today and it a total failure in my opinion. Can not a decent steady idle at anything past .5 turn out. Switched back to #42 and my old setting of 1.75 turns out no longer works. With a analyser I going by ear. What happens is I turn in till maximum rpm and then out .25-.50 turns. This setting seems to best I can achieve with the FP needle in #4 position. Throttle hangs of throttle blip for a few seconds then drops about 150 rpm and idle not to bad. What are your aural findings when you adjust the mixture with the bike running?
    I suspect that my FP #45's are much larger than stamped, but no way to check as I have no jet drills.
  4. Katoum

    Katoum Adventurer

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    Okay this is my latest findings. I adjust the carbs using a Kawasaki curved end carb tool with the bike running. I do this by removing both tanks and taking a piece of small gas line and sticking it can of gas and then inside fuel line to fuel pump, works great as the gas can sit on ground out of way while you work.
    I double checked the turns and I've settled on 1.25 turns out. At this setting the cabs do not hang at all on throttle blips, at idle is quite stable. It seems the richer needle setting has required a .5 turn in compared to my #3 clip on FPO needle which required 1.75 turns out for a nice idle. These cabs seem quite sensitive as to rich or to lean has a dramatic effect on how the motor returns to idle on throttle blips.
    Kay enough of this shit, I'm going for a ride.
    Cheers
  5. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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  6. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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    I can't adjust my carbs this way. I don't have a right angle driver, but I would like to get one. I set it then watch the wideband. Smell the ULP during warm up, and give it the blip test later after riding. I work on the front cylinder only with the wideband.

    When you lift the needle (clip position) more fuel gets sucked from the needle venturi just of idle. The wideband picks this up instantly. So as you lift the needle you must go down in pilot size. If you don't it won't work.... this is probably why no one has found the correct needle setting.

    Pilots are flow rated to #45 not drilled to #45 (so different #45s are different sizes)

    This FP #45 will only work with the 2nd clip needle position, but then you will have to run 170>175 mains to richen the midrange lean spot before flooding the motor above 7000rpm. I have tryed this..... the wideband tells the story.

    Widebands take the gesswork out of tunning :1drink
  7. Suppermotodd

    Suppermotodd Tag Thief

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    Why are you not venting outside the airbox like the stock set up? I have replaced the stock vents with fuel hose and it exits the botom of the airbox below the carbs. What are your thoughts on this set up?:ear

  8. Katoum

    Katoum Adventurer

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  9. motoman250f

    motoman250f Been here awhile

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    katoom, what are your mods?? airbox, exhaust,? Is your jetting work all seat of the pants?
  10. Suppermotodd

    Suppermotodd Tag Thief

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    How are you venting the carbs? Inside the airbox or using fuel line to exit the botom of the box? :ear

  11. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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    The advice to vent inside was on factory pro web site.http://www.factorypro.com/ on the page showing the LC8 jet kit

    Though it defies logic I have not experienced the problems with cross winds that other riders were having.

    The big advantage for me was the ease in removing the carbs, I have had to do that about 50 times since January. the FB kit arrived about a month ago.

    Suppermotodd
    I just cut one hose in half and put them on. Then used Sikaflex to seal the holes. This can be easily reversed.

    If there was a problem with leaning out the wideband would show it. I don't know why it works but it does :D
  12. wsmc99

    wsmc99 Been here awhile

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    Mine vent to the outside of the airbox as well.
    Does this change the settings? I guess it must?

    My friend got his head gaskets replaced :eek1 and when he got it back the vents where inside the box and he lost a bunch of mid-range. Once the venting was back outside the box, all was restored.

    Glad this came up otherwise I would have probably left them out.

    Just called for a set of #38's and #40's. The adventure begins! :evil
  13. Katoum

    Katoum Adventurer

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    I have not had the same success venting to the inside that you describe. It had a negative effect on throttle response by upsetting the slides, causing a lean condition at times. I'm going to call Marc this morning and try to get some clarification on his wording, as it seems somewhat contradictory on the web site at FP.
    You can definetely compensate for venting inside the box but I feel this overcomplicates things on a CV carb.
  14. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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    That's a great idea to talk with Marc. I look forward to hearing what he has to say :thumb I've never understood the logic behind venting inside the airbox.
  15. wsmc99

    wsmc99 Been here awhile

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    K2m,

    Have you tried running the vents outside during this experiment?

    What are the A/F ratios now? You said 11.8-12.2 at WOT and 13.5 @? Are you getting 14-15 at cruise?

    Thanks
  16. Katoum

    Katoum Adventurer

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    Just had a 2 hour talk with Mark at FP and he is going to change the wording on the website. This is what he told me.
    • The jet kit was definetely set up and tested with the vents in the stock position, which means the vents are to the outside of the airbox.
    • He did say that you can make it work by running to the inside, but he does not have the specs or the testing to verify any settings for the vent line in the airbox.
    • We discussed a very broad number of topics from Wide Band Air Fuel meters to dynometers and Marc says the readings on air fuel can be very misleading, but sorry I not knowledgeable enough to go into details.
    • No two bikes may necessarily have the same optimum jetting, many factors come in to play, eg. timing, valves clearance's, etc.
    We discussed running pilot jets down in sizes to #38 as some manufactures have actually used them, but the pitfalls can be the clogging issue. These are after all dirt bikes, and fine silica dust can cause plugging or reduced flow on #38 pilots. I have experienced this myself even when running inline filters. Bottom line is, if your setup works for you, be happy, and ride the balls off it. :lol3
    Cheers,
    Katoum
  17. Jeepboy

    Jeepboy Roost

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    Unfortunatly it seems the bike is going to behave like real dirtbikes....it runs great everywhere but idle.....then again....what good is idle for???
  18. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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    All my testing was done venting inside. I will stick to this as Marc has given no reason to change.

    AF Rs..... Now that I have had time to study this setup

    She idles nice.... A nice steady thump ........ cold @ 14.5 :1
    @ 1400 rpm Normal @ 13.5 :1

    Starting now requires a little technique..... Normal cold .... half choke
    Cold cold .... full choke, then one attempt start, then second attempt open throttle after beginning cranking, and let it sit on half choke for a little while.

    As you pull away from a stop she see's 10.8 > 12.5

    normal city driving 12.8 > 13.3

    cruising at speed 12.8 > 13.8

    100mph cruse @ 14.7 :1

    Last night WOT @ 12.7 :1 at 7000 > red-line

    No mileage figures yet. I'm half way through this tank

    I don't know if you saw my post " UP SHE WENT " very hard to explain.... It was an accident dear..... while laughing your head off

    The blocked pilot jet is an interesting comment. I wasn't aware of such problems. An in-line filter won't stop it (I am not surprised) so the fix will be a paper filter fitted after the pump. I will look into this.

    I don't think that I can improve on this, and I'm ready to move the Wideband back to the car.

    My settings are a starting point, that is very close if not spot on. The next thing for anyone to do is to run through the tests that Factory Pro suggest for tuning. Take your lunch, your coffee, and a book, and the tuning guide, to your favorite quite location and test. Let the engine cool and test, and again cool and test. Then come back and post your results.

    My final settings again
    Pilot = #38 @ 1 turn out
    Needle = FP #5 clip from top
    Mains = 165 rear 160 front
    Float height 2.1 (carbs together.... right side [this makes sense when you do it]) I use a vernier caliper.... they make plastic ones now cheep as.....
    Carb vent inside box.

    Good luck "T"
  19. wsmc99

    wsmc99 Been here awhile

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    Okay I've read through the whole thread again and want to summarize and ask a few questions! Thanks to all for their work on this!!!

    KTmax:
    Pilot = #42 @ Idle Co 4.2%
    Needle = Stock #3.5 clip from top w/glovebox mod #2.5 without
    Mains = 160. rear 155 front

    Any idea what your A/F ratios were at given throttle openings?
    How do they do the glove box mod? :ear

    MSUSSLIN:
    Pilot = #42 @ ?
    Needle = Stock #3 clip from top
    Mains = 165 rear 160 front

    KATOUM:
    Pilot = #42 @ 1.25 turn out
    Needle = FP #4 clip from top
    Mains = 168 rear 165 front

    K2m:
    Pilot = #38 @ 1 turn out
    Needle = FP #5 clip from top
    Mains = 165 rear 160 front
    Float height 2.1

    Do you still think this is the best you've tried? I read through the A/F ratios and Idle seems too lean to me if you have to fight the start up. Would .5 turn out help or maybe the #40 pilot?
  20. wsmc99

    wsmc99 Been here awhile

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    K2m,

    Just some thinking out loud, feel free to correct or chastize me! :D

    She idles nice.... A nice steady thump ........ cold @ 14.5 :1
    @ 1400 rpm Normal @ 13.5 :1

    This seems too lean and hence the special start procedure below. 6-10:1 in your post earlier

    Starting now requires a little technique..... Normal cold .... half choke
    Cold cold .... full choke, then one attempt start, then second attempt open throttle after beginning cranking, and let it sit on half choke for a little while.

    As you pull away from a stop she see's 11.8 > 12.5

    Seems good! 10-13:1 in post(first of 70 pages).

    normal city driving 12.8 > 13.3

    Seems close and a bit lean 10-13:1 in post.

    cruising at speed 12.8 > 13.8

    Could you define this better? 70-80 mph? Seems fat 14-16:1 in post.

    100mph cruse @ 14.7 :1

    Sound perfect for making time and with great fuel economy!

    Last night WOT @ 12.7 :1 at 7000 > red-line

    This looks right on! 12-14:1 in post.

    No mileage figures yet. I'm half way through this tank

    Really curious what this will be!

    I guess "cruising at speed" and the idle are concerning me. Being a tad lean in other spots is fine to me since I want this thing to work from 0-8000 feet.