FactoryPro Jet Kit...cure for what ails your carbs!

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by Gixxer2go, May 16, 2005.

  1. FarmerRick

    FarmerRick Long timer

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    Okay, after fiddling with the setup from the full FP recommendation (170/175 Main, 45 Pilot, Needles position 2 or 3 ended up with Air Screw at 3+ turns out and still had hanging idle with many iterations inbetween) and then back to the KTM factory setup (155/160 mains, 42 Pilot, Position 2 on Factory Needle Air Screws at ~2 turns out) out of frustration :baldy .... The bike ran just fine with the KTM factory setup... but I WANTED MORE!!!! :evil

    So, I've been sitting silently on the side and :ear listening to what all of you have been doing until things settled down a bit. Now with the knowledge of the experience of the collective :norton and the multiple experiences pulling my bike apart and putting it back together from prior setting/resetting of the TB's I took about 1.5 hours last night, pulled the right tank (I didn't even have to pull the left since I've figured out how to pull the idle set cable with safety wire!!! :clap ) and reset the TB's.

    What I did:
    160/165 mains
    42 Pilot
    FG Needles Position 4 from the top
    Air Mixture at ~1.25 turns out

    Results: :thumb

    Cold start no choke
    Idle wanders maybe 50rpm... (big improvement!!!)
    Veeerrrryyyy good low end...
    Big hit in mid and up high!!
    Cruisin' on the interstate this morning, I was extremely please at the overall smoothness.

    So is this the PERFECT setup? I don't know... but I'm finally ready to put the H&B tank guards back on and just ride it for a while!

    Rick

    04 950 PSCHITZO 10k+ happy miles

    PS... I am running unbaffled Akro's
  2. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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    Raising the needle to #4 rich-ens the idle circuit to much. You must drop down to a #40 pilot when doing this.

    Quote..... "Cold start no choke"

    This is cause for concern. An engine that starts without choke is running way to rich....... and the smell :(:

    Long term oil degradation and carbon build up could cause problems.

    The problem with "to rich" is that it feels good. (unless we are talking about money)

    Raising the needle to #5 requires a #38 pilot

    Sorry Mate I don't enjoy to criticize other peoples work.:nod
  3. FarmerRick

    FarmerRick Long timer

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    Hi Rory...

    No problems on the input!! While the Down Under crowd is enjoying the end of winter, it's 100 degrees in the shade here. I don't currently have a bike right not that needs choke to start. In a couple of months, as things cool off, I'll see how it goes.

    The start right now without the choke does not have the tale tale smell of richness. Plugs seem to have good color and actually appear to be slightly on the lean side.

    I will keep an eye on it but for now... I just put my H&B tank protectors back on the bike so I'm not planning on doing any further tweaking for a couple thousand miles...

    Oh yeah... that was position 4 not 5... :D

    Cheers!!
  4. Tennktm

    Tennktm Been here awhile

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    GC, man your Sat. nights are not too exciting.....TENNKTM:1drink
  5. FarmerRick

    FarmerRick Long timer

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    I'm old and I have not life except the internet...:D what's your excuse??:ear
  6. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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    GCExaminer said
    "While the Down Under crowd is enjoying the end of winter"

    Funny you should say that.... I took this photo of Mrs. K2m not 3 days ago

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  7. Katoum

    Katoum Adventurer

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    Right or wrong I agree with your evaluation, as I also have the exact same setup, after reducing my mains from 165-168 to 160-165. Strangely enough reducing the size of mains has not improved fuel consumption. Overall transitions seem smooth, but maybe still a tad to rich on the bottom.
    My friend and I did some Dynojet dyno runs at a Sport Bike West event this weekend and the results were interesting but not conclusive enough for me, but I will be the first to admit that I came out 4 hp down on a stock jetted 05. Both bikes had cans, his were carbon Wings, (very nice) and mine are Akro's.
    Unfortunately there was no analyzer so mixture readings were unavailable. Interesting enough the stock mixture's glowed the pipes to a cherry red clearly visible on the right side, and mine never glowed at all, which left me a little puzzled.
    One difference on the dyno was our choice of tires, his was a stock Scorpion, and I was running a 140-18 TKC full knobby. When I asked the fellow who was taking our money if the knobby would affect the output, he said it could account for up to 5 HP loss due to lack of traction on roller, and bounce from the irregular worn knobs. Now that could be a whole new thread. :D
    Okay enough of my excuses for loosing, now for the numbers.

    Elevation was 1050 feet and temperature was hot and dry.

    Stock carb jetting 05 88 point something so say 89 HP
    Mine with FP (see previous) 84 point something so say 85 HP

    We were going to switch tires and run again but simply ran out of time after the days events. Maybe next year we can do it again. :asta
  8. Tennktm

    Tennktm Been here awhile

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    GC Examiner's bike is on......

    it smokes my stock 05.5......low end response is instantaneous, pulls all the way up (well, I did not take it quite all the way, but far enough to know it was not going to flatten)......comprable to fuel injection that is set up correctly......

    Now, to order the pipes and jets....and that bottle of single malt to GC for the assistance......and I will have a new bike.

    TENNKTM
  9. FarmerRick

    FarmerRick Long timer

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    Hi Will...

    Let me know when you get the parts in and I'll be more than happy to do the installs....

    Rick

    PS... next time... ride it like you stole it!!!
  10. RedFlash

    RedFlash Go Cubs!

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    Drove the IMS's back to 1.75 and it runs fine on easy throttle. Thanks, wsmc99, for the suggestion

    However, I tried to change the carb vents to the air box, and what a disaster that was! At WOT, the surging and cutout was horrendous. I'm thinking bigger mains are necessary to run the vents into the airbox. Anyway, the vents are back to the bottom of the chassis, after cutting new hose and cycling the right tank of the bike a few times yesterday :patch .

    Oh, what a winter project in the making! Anyone trying a FI solution?
  11. wsmc99

    wsmc99 Been here awhile

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    Redflash94, No problem.

    All, After running the FP #5, 160/165 #38 Pilot @ 1 turn out for some time now I feel it's good but too rich in the mid-range. My bike smokes on exceleration due to that richness and my fuel economy suffers for it as I like to ride in the middle range a lot.

    Next time I'm in there I'm going to Stock needles @ #2.5 155/160 #42 Pilot @ 1.75 turns or so.

    KTmax, Do you have any idea where the AF screws are to achieve 4.2%co?
    I'm looking for something that will get me close until I can get to a dyno.
    Are the carbs vented outside the box? I'm assuming they are since when mine was close to that before the pipes they were outside.
  12. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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    Middle range richness is controlled by the main jet...... and the float level. Strange... your bike didn't blow smoke on your original test..... this problem developed..... so something is wrong. When you pull it apart check that everything is tight. Look for signs of leaking floats ect.

    Midrange leanness was my reason for using the 160, 165 mains. My preference is for 155, 160 @ WOT, but then it runs a little lean in the sweet spot. The factory instruction sheet suggests a 2mm float height!!!
  13. wsmc99

    wsmc99 Been here awhile

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    Actually it has had that going on since I changed the setup. I had seen it when my freind and I swapped and he said the other day it is still doing it.

    I do need to confirm the float level when I get back in there.

    Maybe 158/162 mains?
  14. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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    It's a good idea to try them.... I don't have any so It is the only thing that I haven't tried. I will post a picture of where to check the floats. Got to go to work chat later.
  15. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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  16. wsmc99

    wsmc99 Been here awhile

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    Cool I'll be curious to see the results!
    I found that my kit doesn't have those jets so I'll look at ordering them.

    That's a pretty extensive article, interesting.
  17. Dale950

    Dale950 Long timer

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    Hi Guys, after my last service the mech told me Ive lost a bit of midrange after fitting my aftermarket mufflers and he's right, Ive noticed it dosn't loft the front quite so easy now from 1st - 3rd gear and he suggest's go up on the needle and probally the main jet .

    Next week I'm putting it in for it's 14000 k service and will get the tune up done too, given he's charging around the $70 ph and you guy's are just about the experts as to trial and error re settings I would like a good start off point for him to go to . So would I be safe to start at say 155/ 160 mains #42 pilot Co2 - 4.2 ? I'm at sea level no mods apart from mufflers & 16 t sprocket.

    Cheers.
  18. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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    Good morning Toohp

    Raising the needle to the third clip is good. In fact raising it to slightly less may be best. ie using spacers.

    This will create another problem in that more fuel will be sucked up the needle venture at idle making the bike rich at idle. The solution here is to go to Mick Hone MC in Melbourne to get the Factory Pro # 40 pilot jets.... "78 series jets"

    2 turns out works well with this.

    155, 160 main jets should be fine, I57.5 and 162.5 (FP from Hone's) may be better.

    Mick Hone Motorcycles 715 Whitehorse
    Road Box Hill Ph: (03 ... 08) 82619955 Fax: (08) 83690080 mike@kessnersuzuki.com ...

    On the exhaust..... the high idle is an indication of the large overlap of the valves at TDC. As the exhaust gases exit the pipe they create a shock wave that travels back to the exhaust port stopping the fresh charge from leaving the cylinder. This improves volumetric efficiently. On the 950 this happens when the gas exits the catalytic converter at the beginning of the muffler.

    The problem with adding after market mufflers is that it alters the tuned length. They should improve things by having less pressure on the pistons during the exhaust stroke, but the improvement is marginal to the extreme!!! A waist of money.

    The solution would be to narrow the header pipes down slightly (ie. make new pipes) , to get back to the tuned "volume/length".

    Another solution is to modify the stock exhaust so that it breathes better.

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  19. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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    Sorry Tony I haven't had time to pull my carbs apart to take that photo of doing the floats. FP web site has a good description for this job. Leaning the still joined carbs towards my chest I measure the float on my right with the vernier calipers
  20. Dale950

    Dale950 Long timer

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    Thanks K2m, thats a great help , I actually know Mick well as I don't live far from his shop so no probs there , I'm currently working on the Gold Coast I will get Mick to send some jets up for me thanks again .

    Cheers .


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