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First Bike 2019 AT AS-DCT vs 2021 T700

Discussion in 'Japanese polycylindered adventure bikes' started by Chyves, Aug 21, 2020.

  1. 97707

    97707 Vulture capitalist

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    If you think you are set on an AT, you should be aware the AS is taller and heavier than the non AS version.

    Really worth considering the advice you see here. Neither of those are a good choice for a beginner. Too big, too heavy, and too expensive unless you have money to blow.

    Whatever bike you get, you should ride one for a couple days on road and off, make sure its gonna work for you.

    My take on the T7 is its the better bike for challenging the dirt, and its simpler. Simple can be good.

    The AT is probably a more comfortable distance machine, if you are gonna lean more toward touring. With DCT and multiple traction modes, there's more electronic trinkets than some folks need.

    Also, before you buy, try picking it up. Anything is easy to pick up in the parking lot. It gets harder in the wild. You might decide something like a DRZ400 at 320# is a better first bike.

    .
    #21
    The_Precious_Juice likes this.
  2. neanderthal

    neanderthal globeriding wannabe

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    Here, but lost. Am I lost if i know i'm here?
    It's ok to say i'm a fattie. My Samsung health app straight up calls me obese.

    My point was simply that a careful fellow can actually start on a large displacement bike and survive/ thrive. My mindset when starting out was to get a beater like everyone suggested. The rumors of a new Africa Twin had me waiting to see what would eventuate. The spy pics and True Adventure prototype had me saying "fuck the old learner bike shit, WANT that!"
    I had to instill in myself good habits and conservative practises from Day 1. I deliberately put down a lot of money for my deposit, and even though the bike is insured i told myself I would be very unhappy if I stuffed it.
    #22
  3. katit

    katit Adventurer

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    I know I like dirt and don't want track days. Watched multiple videos on 250 and all of them is like "yeah, highway possible but not ideal". Yeah, they can do 70-80 but be careful next to semis.. And so on..
    My buddies all say to not waste time and money and just get real deal and take it slow and careful.

    On another note, what is going prices for AT in USA? I am mechanical, don't care if it's used and needs work ..
    #23
  4. HarveyM

    HarveyM Been here awhile

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    Hi katit- you're not the original poster, but a couple thoughts.
    One is I think every rider goes through an 'oh shit' moment in their riding that really scares them and forces them to re-evaluate if riding is worth the risks. In my case it was about six months in when the guy behind me decided I was too slow so he ran a red light in my lane. For another I know it was when a texting driver forced him on his Victory on the left hand shoulder of a six lane highway. He quit and sold his stuff. So when that moment comes and if it kills the joy will you take the hit for an AT or something like a Versys-X 300/CB500x?
    Off to Alaska on a CB500X??
    Alaska or Bust on Versys X-300 https://advrider.com/f/threads/alaska-or-bust-on-versys-x-300-with-goldwing-and-nc700-trying-to-keep-up.1367700/

    And here's one cautionary tail:

    #24
  5. katit

    katit Adventurer

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    To be honest, if such moment comes - I wouldn't care much about financial part.. OTOH - I did so many bad purchases "to see if I like this or that" i my life be it cars, tools, clothes and then paid to replace those that I feel like I have to like motorcycle and have what I wanted.

    Did not watch full 40 minutes but got some clues like "guy wanted AT badly and didn't go with common idea - start small". And then he crashed it. Not sure how soon and what was a problem.. And what should I take out of it? He didn't provide any words of wisdom.. Not trying to argue with everyone, but I hear both sides. And other side telling me I will be trading in smaller bike in a couple weeks and take a hit right away..
    #25
  6. raulnorry

    raulnorry Adventurer

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    I'm near STL also! I'm having to sell my Tiger 1200 XCa unfortunately, but once finances improve I plan on getting a Moto Guzzi V85 TT. I haven't ridden the T7, but coming from the Tiger 1200 XCa as my second bike ever, I really REALLY wished I'd gone with something that had less power and weighed less.

    I took my Tiger (600ish wet) off-road and into lots of situations I probably shouldn't have and got out safely with myself and the bike, but as more time has passed, I've realized how much the weight and top-heaviness limits what I could do comfortably. I also found that 140hp is more than I could ever use on the street and wished for something that would make me "work" more on the bike...I don't have to leave second gear if I don't want to on 90% of my drives.

    The MT-07 is a frequently recommended "beginner bike for mature adults", and that has the same engine as the T7. The T7 does have a very tall seat height, so you might find it uncomfortable at low speed and city traffic situations. But from power, weight, and flexibility considerations, I'd say that's the better choice if you can handle the height.
    #26
    lithodave likes this.
  7. katit

    katit Adventurer

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    I'm not OP, looking more into AT than anything else, it's 500 wet and 90hp or so. Sounds like you wouldn't have issues handling it.
    #27
  8. Jarrett2

    Jarrett2 Been here awhile

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    So, two plus years ago, I was in your shoes. I made a mistake and bought a DCT AT first.

    My thought was, might as well get the big bike and grow into it. Seems logical, but I didn't know how learning to ride a motorcycle worked.

    If you are going to actually get good at riding, it is best to start small and work up. Especially, if you plan on riding in the dirt at any point.

    When I started riding, I rode the AT for a while, but my skills didn't really improve. I was too scared of the size/power of the bike to risk learning things on it other than just how not to crash. Then I bought a CRF250L and started playing with it in the dirt and I learned a bunch of skills and techniques that I would not have been brave/dumb enough to try and learn on the AT. This, in turn, made my riding ability on the AT leap forward a bit.

    My recommendation, especially if you plan on dirt riding someday, start on a small bike. CRF250L, CRF250L Rally, WR250R, KLX250, whatever. I say those models because they are cheap, plentiful, reliable and street legal. You can get one used, ride it for 6+ months, then sell it again for basically what you paid for it. They have no traction control, no slipper clutch, most don't have ABS even, so you have to learn how to ride without all of those aids. Plus the bike is light, flickable and underpowered so you won't get into any whiskey throttle trouble with it.

    Don't worry about getting a pretty one because you are going to drop it a bunch of times. Might as well get the cheaper, used one with the scratches already on it. Ride it around the block for a while, then around town, then the next town over, find some dirt and get used to the feel of loose traction. Once you get all of your drops out of the way and can comfortably spin/drag the rear wheel on command in the dirt, then consider your next bike.
    #28
    slipknot likes this.
  9. Jarrett2

    Jarrett2 Been here awhile

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    I'd be willing to bet someone gave me exactly this advice when I was starting out and I didn't listen to them :)

    Don't make the same mistake I did.
    #29
  10. MillennialFalcon

    MillennialFalcon Improvement starts with self

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    Fat people should lose weight and only then reward themselves with a motorcycle. If the stick doesn't work, perhaps the carrot will...you are food-motivated after all. And if you can afford one of these motorcycles, you can afford to get fit.
    #30
  11. Jarrett2

    Jarrett2 Been here awhile

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    Then there's this guy.
    #31
  12. katit

    katit Adventurer

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    Did you use it on highway? I am all for those. I would love to even ride 125cc 2-stroke. However, I need capable ON and Off road bike. Like I said, I may have to travel 50-100+ miles to get to the places where I can drive off-road. Here in STL I can see getting around on 250 but even here I have to hop on a highway sometime.

    I am not comfortable with being slow and light on a highways with 70mph speed limit :(
    #32
    lithodave likes this.
  13. Jarrett2

    Jarrett2 Been here awhile

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    My advice was specifically for the OP, chyves. I don't know your situation.
    #33
  14. katit

    katit Adventurer

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    Yeah, it works for a moment :) I lost 40lb to get sports car. Lasted 1.5 years :)
    #34
  15. WalterMitty2

    WalterMitty2 Been here awhile

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    If you like dirt, then IMHO both the AT and T7 are pigs. TOTAL PIGS!!! Don't get me wrong, I really like both of them, and one of them might be in my garage some day, but neither would be the tool I would want to use for mostly dirt riding.

    I've ridden dirt/offroad for about 35 years...still have the CR250 that is my avatar. It's a 2001, CR250 with a pipe and will do power wheelies with my fat ass in 3rd no problem...maybe in 4th too, but I don't know. I"m old and slow now, and her abilities are WAY beyond my skill set, always have been. It's a purpose built machine for the dirt...narrow, high ground clearance, and LITE WEIGHT....a tad over 200 pounds.

    That said, if your dirt bike has to be street legal, then you're going to have make compromises. It sounds like a you should strongly consider a dual purpose bike versus the big ADV bikes you've listed. Which matters more...the trip to the dirt, or the ride when you are at the dirt?

    Having said all that, the biggest thing that jumps out at me is that you are a novice rider. No way, would I recommend a 1,000 cc or even a 700 cc bike to a beginner. If you buy a small ADV bike right, you won't take much of a hit on resale. Also there's a chance you will....

    1) not ride as much as planned, so it will sit in the garage, so way pay more
    2) love it, it's perfect, and you never move up
    3) love it, want to move up but plan to keep it so you have more than one bike
    4) hate it, but learned a ton on it, sell it for little or no loss and move up
    #35
  16. katit

    katit Adventurer

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    Ok, let me put it different way. If I wanted dirt bike, I would get just that and use trailer on my truck to bring it to the track.
    What I want is off-road capable bike which I can ride in town. Most (90+%) of riding will be on pavement. Around town and driving to off-road places. I don't want to do jumping or racing. Just being able to explore trails and go places. Thats why I do understand that while off-road CRF250L might be perfect. But riding around town and on highway is where my problem is. And it's majority...
    #36
  17. sheath

    sheath Adventurer

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    Used and cheap would be my suggestion. If that isn't possible, I'd get the T7. Much prefer dropping and picking it up, over the AT.

    I ride an '18 ATAS, and even with 15 years of serious MX/Off Road racing experience, and two decades of street riding, I am ginger off road. It's a heavy pig to lift, and I really don't want to scratch that beautiful Red, White and Blue paint work.
    The T7, I'd throw around with abandon, because it's a cheap ADV bike. It's still a heavy pig, but not as big a pig as the Honda.

    Hope you get the bike you want, and have a great time! :beer
    #37
  18. katit

    katit Adventurer

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    Currently 2017-2018 ATs can be bought for under $10k brand new. Same as T7. Or your referring to cost of owning?
    #38
  19. sheath

    sheath Adventurer

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    I looked at that, but when you get a real price, it's more in the $12K price range before tax, title & dealer fees. A good example is the dealer in Las Vegas, puts an add for under $10K.
    Then you call, and get a real quote over $12K.
    #39
  20. katit

    katit Adventurer

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    On AT forums people claim getting $9700 type of deals OTD (Before tax I assume). But still. Here is those ATs and I don't see any of the T7 for sale, maybe I don't know where to look?
    #40