Florida Trails and Tracks Network

Discussion in 'The Sandbox - AKA Flatistan' started by XRWilly, Feb 23, 2019.

  1. Ginger Beard

    Ginger Beard Instagram @motopossum

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    That sounds awesome! I hadn't seen it done and since over the last 20 uears I've covered most of the state, I figured I could build a route out of what I've ridden. The hardest part was tossing out sections that knowingly overlapped other people's routes. An impossibility in certain sections due to minimal options but I geel I've done it well enough to not step on toes so to speak

    Andy was a good sport to put up with me for days on end. I always warn people that I'm a bit of an asshole but no one ever listens.:lol3


    Yeah, the area I like to call the "development belt" ( Tampa across to Melbourne ) Has very little to no off pavement that works into direct routes. Same for south of Lake O. Of the 1600 miles we rode, it turned out to be about 85%% dirt. I'd be interested to see how similar our routes are.
    #21
  2. waybill

    waybill wayward

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    That would be good, next time you're heading north give a shout and we'll shoot for a meetup.

    You're right, the area you describe was the toughest with only a few options but I think most would understand and accept it. I actually found some (fairly) interesting pavement thru there but also zig-zagged around for dirt more than I would've liked but at some point you have to ask, is about the destination or the ride : )

    Speaking of assholes, I purposely did all of my scouting solo. :D
    #22
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  3. Sandspit

    Sandspit Been here awhile

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    Brevard CO FL....understand the issues as the only moto--X spot we had in town has been shut down , so why not just use true public roads? Like Ginger Beard we only have 3 dirt roads here and everyone already knows them..so starting in Indian River COunty/Brevard line look up "Jungle Trail" short dirt road by the Intracoastal Waterway with a heavy LEO presence, refrain from twisting the throttle, they will ticket you quickly. This empties onto A1A so Pavement with some Ocean views up to Tropical Trail (well known) that runs next to the river, I prefer the Rockledge Drive side of the river heading North, basically Paved roads running north by the river will get you up to the Northern part of Brevard...we have much more but it would be zig-zag to ride small patches of dirt and some other Horse trails that are ridden but I will not post them here...so for Brevard all public... Jungle Trail>A1A then Tropical trail or any other river side paved road until you have to get back on US1. Some dirt roads around the Space Center could be a ok detour to check out. Hard on the knobbies but decent paved roads w/ a water view.
    #23
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  4. XRWilly

    XRWilly Been here awhile

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    I’m heading into DixieDualSport’s Devil’s Creek Rally for the next three days, so I’m not in too much of a position to discuss until next week, but let me respond to a couple comments.



    The idea here is to create a resource for you, me and other adventure/dual sport enthusiasts. I’m documenting trail systems in my region so you and others can come and ride them. I’d like you and others to create a resource of trail systems in your regions so I and others can come ride them. The asshats exist. It’s not our responsibility to manage them, nor would we ever be effective if we tried. Not developing this resource and not putting this information “out there” penalizes you, me and other respectable adventure/dual sport enthusiasts for asshats being asshats.



    First, while I appreciate the existence of Adventure Rider and use of its platform to communicate with my dual sport and adventure brothers and sisters, to be clear, the Florida Trails and Tracks Network will have absolutely nothing to do with Adventure Rider and Adventure Rider will have nothing to do with Florida Trails and Tracks Network. I’ve made similar postings about the idea in FaceBook Groups, and FB ain’t gonna have anything to do with the Network either. Once the Network is up and running, it operates on its own.


    Second, and most respectfully, this is exactly the attitude that the Network is designed for and built to…well…ignore. Its origination came in discussion with serious dual sport and adventure enthusiasts who are frustrated with the lack of publicly available information about publicly accessible trail and track information; people who don’t have the time or money to afford joining the organized events (Devil’s Creek this weekend cost me $180) or can’t work their way into the Inmate cliques and circles “so someone will pm them a track or two”…


    …and when they can, what exactly is it that they get? See the link in the first post to see what they get in the Network. It’s easily accessible, it’s easily searched, it’s relative to the interests, it’s current, and it’s comprehensive.


    Unfortunately, the day of the discussion forum is coming to an end and, even at that, Adventure Rider as the sole repository of dual sport trail information to be doled out at the whim of Inmates is contrary to the mission of the Network. Please continue to do that, but it is certainly NOT better than the Network.



    Trash is a big issue with me as I’m an Ambassador Volunteer with Keep Tampa Bay Beautiful. I carry a couple trash bags in my backpack and if I see a bad spot where someone(s) were partying or a trashy abandoned hunting camp, I sometimes pick it up.


    Get involved in its cleanup and get noticed. You’ll find that those managing the WMAs will see you in a whole different light. In the DixieDualSport Club, we host an organized annual cleanup of the Withlacoochee Forest. The Forest Service has even given us a certificate of thanks.
    #24
  5. salty_dog

    salty_dog Day trips around TLH, WMAs and South Ga dirt roads

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    I appreciate the comments of everyone. I like the concept of sharing and I'm sure we each some routes/tracks that are not "honey holes" to borrow a fishing term. On the Florida Sportsman Forum it is just as hard to get a gps spot of a trout hole or grouper ledge. Yet we all know the publicly shared spots. I would share some of the trails I enjoy that are on areas that are public assuming the same reciprocity for an area I someday plan to visit. Maybe we just start and support this site with some easy, known WMA and state forest routes. I think that if the MTB and cyclocross riders can share on their websites we should be able to come up with a site that is interesting and focuses on DS riders.

    Until I retire or get more weekend time, I don't see myself doing much more than the few events I manage to make each year. I am very happy with and try to support all the events that PAR and CADS organize and sponsor.
    #25
  6. Ginger Beard

    Ginger Beard Instagram @motopossum

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    Great post XRWilly!
    #26
  7. rider1150gsadv

    rider1150gsadv Long timer

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    That is great! However, we can't even keep the S FL Tag game going because of lack of interest with the people we have down here, so I doubt that a cleanup will ever happen as a group. It'll be up to the individuals to do that. The mentality of the people in South Florida isn't what it used to be and differs greatly with those who live just north of lake O

    I got pretty friendly with a FWC officer in the Rotenberger/Holylands area and she told me that they are pretty fed up with the weekend party gangs that roam around. They already banned quads and allow only plated vehicles in the area.
    It isn't the hunters or the dual sport riders they worry about, as we know how little it takes for these areas to be closed permanently, it is the random morons that F up a lot of things down here..
    #27
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  8. Ginger Beard

    Ginger Beard Instagram @motopossum

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    Illegal dumping is a nightmare down here
    #28
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  9. waybill

    waybill wayward

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    There's 21 million people here already with no sign of slowing down. Making it easier for all the numbnuts (approx 5 million : ) to access our offroad riding spots will improve nothing, in fact the opposite. Granted there may be a few n00bs to dualsporting that could benefit but the legions of 4wheelers, jeepers, and SXS's that follow will eventually trash it all into extinction. With half a brain it's not that hard to figure out where you can ride, open Google Maps to Florida and look at the areas in green, obviously not the Everglades or every place shown but most of those you can ride a D/S in, just about everything else is private property.

    A good example is Colorado, in recent years all the popular (really good) riding areas have been trampled to death and stuff anywhere near the front range trashed, the locals hate it and mostly despise tourists in general because of it. Locals have been demoted to using a lot of their best riding areas to the off season. Yes it can happen here, and it will eventually but I don't see a good reason to speed up the process.
    #29
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  10. rider1150gsadv

    rider1150gsadv Long timer

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    ^ You're too kind with 5 million. IMHO it is more than 80% that are idiots. Just look at the traffic accidents and how people actually drive...:baldy
    #30
  11. XRWilly

    XRWilly Been here awhile

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    Hmmm. I don't really understand where you have acquired the idea that you can qualify who does and who does not ride publicly accessible trail networks and that these publicly accessible trail networks are somehow either "ours," yours, Inmates, ours to manage, whatever. Again, the attitudes underlying comments such as "making it easier for approx 5 million numbnuts" (obviously you are the qualifier of said) and ""our"" offroad riding trails" (obviously you believe you/we/Inmates have some special rights to them) are exactly the attitudes that the Network is designed for and built for to...well...ignore. And this time I'll add the statements are wrong. To take your opinion beyond that of the poster that believes that tracks are best shared privately among inmates, you're basically condemning all of Adventure Rider 'cuz this is so much of what goes on in the Regional Forums....that is, sharing track information in a public forum. Maybe a little hypocritical to broadcast track information on Adventure Rider and and then condemn our Network idea? Hmmm.

    Listen Sir, I've made it clear in the guidelines, we do not want anything that really is yours. If you've developed a track and think it's proprietary then we will absolutely respect that. You don't even need to ask because the guidelines provide that the site hosts create all trails, track information and trail documentation currently and from scratch.

    I respect your right to an opinion and I'm sure you respect mine. So if you don't want to help, that's perfectly fine...but please, let us continue to build our idea on the shoulders of dual sport and adventure enthusiast who see the value in this idea without interruption or obstruction.

    Peace,
    Bill
    #31
  12. waybill

    waybill wayward

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    You confused my two posts then got defensive about it. I said nothing about proprietary routes in the one you quoted above and am not referring to them. And obviously the riding areas aren't mine, ours, or anyone else's in particular, but there for everyone to use. Not sure how long you've been here (you didn't say, did you move here from somewhere else) but I've been riding in Fla nearly 60 years and have watched it become more fragile with over population and development each passing year. It keeps getting paved over because of population influx and counties getting more tax revenue, one day all the dirt outside WMA's, state, and national forests will be gone, and it's not outside the realm of logic that they may also be threatened.

    Just saying there's a shitload of people here already, making it easier for those that AREN'T dualsporters to access riding areas isn't my idea of fun. But carry on with your little project, sounds like you're on a mission for whatever reason.
    #32
  13. jaydee1445

    jaydee1445 Footpeg Crash Tester

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    Dude has has his agenda and we aren’t going to influence his decisions.
    Ask Swamy to share his routes while you are busy with the creek.:fpalm
    #33
  14. Dr.Z

    Dr.Z 6Sigma Knuckle Shflr

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  15. sanjoh

    sanjoh Purveyor of Light

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    #35
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  16. XRWilly

    XRWilly Been here awhile

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    "Swampy" and again, we will never use any organized trails or tracks such as Devils Creek. The only information that will be used is information that members of the Network develop on their own.

    It's not that I have an agenda and don't want to hear arguments or see information that might indicate the idea isn't as good as we think it is. I don't want to waste mine or anyone's time. For instance, DrZ's new post ^ has my attention and I'm going to share with existing members and follow up. As for Waybill, he made some statements that were just plain wrong, I felt to the point of arrogant, and he got respectfully called out on them. If he (or you) have some relevant and accurate information, then I'd definitely consider it. Otherwise, please, move on with your lives...hopefully in the saddle.

    And now, I'm definitely on my way to Brooksville.
    #36
  17. waybill

    waybill wayward

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    You misconstrued most of what I said so either suck at reading comprehension or are just plain dickish : )

    And you still haven't disclosed if you're a transplant, recent or otherwise, inquiring minds want to know.
    #37
  18. Huzband

    Huzband Team Dirt

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    So which is it? You seem to want input & help developing "your Network", but only as long as the ideas fit within your "guidelines". When one of Florida's most experienced (maybe the most) makes points about some flaws in your idea, you accuse him of making "statements that were just plain wrong" & call him arrogant. Newsflash; nothing waybill posted was wrong, it was simply points of truth you didn't want to hear. You're hell bent on getting this internet thing going with your name on it. Fine, knock yourself out. But don't poo-poo people that offer legitimate reasons as to why you should perhaps re-think it. That's just bad business.

    At least once on each of the last three Trans-Fl Rallies it was mentioned in my group that "this road used to be dirt". Each time was a different route & different road. More internet publicity on information that's already on the...wait for it... internet, isn't going to help.

    The struggle is real, & we're losing.
    20180902_110651_HDR(1).jpg
    #38
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  19. Ginger Beard

    Ginger Beard Instagram @motopossum

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    Damn that's terrible man.

    Both "for" and "against" sides have some very good points here. Rather than having it turn into an online squabble, let's try to figure out a way to share and be inclusive to new riders while also being considerate to land owners ,residents of populated areas that routes run through and respectful of the sensitive environments that we are crossing. The question here is how do we do that?

    What causes some routes to become either over utilized or misused when more popular/better known routes seem to manage without major issues (TAT, MABDR, SEAT,etc ) ?

    How can we share and encourage others to get into this truly enjoyable world of offroad travel while keeping the asshats out (or better still, helping them become respectful riders)?



    I'm glad that this thread has appeared as this is a topic that is very important to me as a 6th generation South Floridian , especially as I get closer to having a really enjoyable backroads route that I'd love to publish. I love this state and getting to share it's magic with newcomers has always brought me joy.

    How do we share this beautiful state without destroying what makes it so special in the process?
    #39
  20. Ginger Beard

    Ginger Beard Instagram @motopossum

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    Man did I see a ton of this on my recent trip. They're paving this state at an alarming rate.
    #40