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Discussion in 'The Sandbox - AKA Flatistan' started by XRWilly, Feb 23, 2019.
Welcome to the asylum.
But, but, but...Florida is the Friendly State!
wow this thread exploded into negativity...I do not see why we cannot share public roads, no trails or grey trails, private roads, sensitive areas etc. Yea that is where the best riding is but kinda like the TAT a tagged bike should have no issues with access...Anyways feel free to use my Central East Coast route , Jungle trail (dirt rd river view) to A!A to Pineda causeway (bridge over to the main land) to US1 for a short run to Rockledge drive take that North along the west side of the IntraCoastal continue on Indian River Drive to the Space Coast, some dirt loops up there around Titusville once you get North of Titusville things fall apart, so I'll pass the bar to a Volusia county rider(s) maybe head inland towards the Old Dixie Highway? Also the area around Titusville/Cape Canaveral has roads (some public dirt) that appear to go north..really not sure once you get up in that area but it looks promising....BTW this route is well known , Harleys , convertibles and even bicycles ride the roads by the river (Tropical Trail is the one on the East side)
Any drunk asshat on a XR600 without a muffler and no requard for those who share the path can find the track on the internet and ruin for everyone. Then come the quads and monster trucks tearing it up.
I don't see how it is SO HARD some to grasp this concept.
I’m not speculating On theory here it’s happened time and time again.
Look at the Blue Ridge Trail thread DR Z posted.
If you want to share your trails organize som rides and bring some noobs into the community
I miss all the DDS rides they were great for introducing n00bs to the community.
Some one should step up and make that happen if they are worried about some poor n00b That can’t use google maps
Short of that stop whining about those wanting to protect the little bit of DS left in this stat from dicks that will get it all shut down.
If you think the environmental Nazis arn’t cruising the Internet looking for their next victim you’re sorely mistaken
My favorite spot to wheel the jeep was a played out lime rock pit in Ocala.
One of the few places you could break one tons and lockers .
The mining company that owned it knew we were there but they kind of had a don’t ask don’t tell attitude towards it as long as we kept it low-key
Yahoos started posting pictures of jeeps rolling down the hills and extreme carnage on the Jeep forum
We warned about them getting the place shut down if they didn’t stop but theydid’nt want to hear it
then they posted directions and too weeks later the sheriff was there arresting people for trespassing and Impounding vehicles.... it’s now fenced off.
Obviously you’ve never been shot at by a pissed off homeowner for dual sporting in his neighborhood or having the cops called on you by another pissed off homeowner.
Once you start posting shit on the Internet it doesn’t take long for property owners to put a stop to access.
There aren't that many asshole dirbikers around. Maybe a few but they do little damage.
There are more asshole 4x4/jeep guys around, still a small % of overall but enough to do noticeable damage.
Environazis are all assholes and will fuck things up for everyone.
I've never met a dualsport noob who wasn't a nice person out to have some fun without leaving a mess behind. Assholes don't usually bother with dualsports. Cause tags aren't cool and they love to "run from the cops."
Being a nOOb and this being my first post here, Hello. I can certainly appreciate those of you who want to make this list to help out the new guys. I was born and raised here, and spent my 42 years hunting, fishing, and belonging to 4x4 clubs here. I also have seen areas close, stricter and more enforced rules in the WMA's, and more development than I care to. I can also understand the views of those that think keeping them out of the public eye is better. In the 4x4 club we faced a lot of the same problems being discussed here. The sad truth is not everyone realizes they are in the same boat when it comes to losing the areas we have left to do anything, weather it be the DS groups, 4x4 clubs, or even the local yahoo's.
In the early 2000's Ocala NF got a new manager and she proposed greatly restricting access due to wetland damage by the St Francis rough riders, they were cutting Armco barriers with oxyacetylene touches to tear up the "Mud Holes"
The Ocala Jeep club lobbied to keep access and promote responsible trail usage. I rode as a volunteer Ranger and we busted plenty of dirtbikes in closed areas. The sand fleas regularly rode restricted areas so the comment about dualsports is way off base.
Dixiedualsports were instrumental in keeping access to Richloam. Swampy has introduced tons of n00bs to some great routes but it was always understood the route were not to be made public for the very reasons we are quoting.
The comment wasn't pointing blame at anyone. Just saying that when an area gets closed all the groups lose out.
I think everyone can agree that assholes are pretty evenly dispersed throught the offroad community just as they are everywhere else. It's an unfortunate side effect of being part of society. We can also agree that assholes screw it up for everyone.
So again, how do routes like the TAT , the various BDRs, the SEAT, etc seam to be embraced by towns and locals alike? How do we publicly share enjoyable routes with other riders while promoting good representation of dual sporting and respectful land usage? Obviously there is a way to do it so what's the secret?
This post touches on multiple points so my response is for everyone.
On the first part, the negativity was noted by two mods and we got a shot across the bow. As the OP, I communicated with them on the lockdown and got some really good feedback. I hope we can all agree that there’s no reason to bother them anymore. Personally, I don’t want my name etched on the bathroom wall at Adventure Rider Central...or any bathroom wall for that matter.
On the second part, the current structure of the Network is a loose assemblage of privately owned and hosted regional blogs that are interconnected using a method called LinkBuilding. However, we have penned some guidelines (currently preliminary and tentative) for blog hosts to follow. We constantly use the phrase “publicly accessible” in targeting trail networks. This is an important emphasis because, as we all know, there can be a blurred line between what’s publicly accessible and what’s private or restricted. The LAST thing we want to do is send a rider into anyplace that is remotely questionable as to its public accessibility. The links below to the current blog are actually in the blog for potential hosts to read and consider.
Current Blog: https://floridatrailsandtracks.blogspot.com/
Proposed Guidelines: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q3awVV0AtKx9ZSyrFrAJ_IFAGCClBrhF/view
On the third point, I appreciate the offer for the Central East Coast Route in Sandpit’s post, but what the idea of the Network is absolutely NOT, is the gathering and posting of track information (in any form, including gps tracking) from any person, any organized event or anyplace. Using my own guidelines, I can’t even go into my personal files and pull up and use trail and track information that I have.
The guideline is specific. The selected trail must be subjected to a current, contemporaneous documentation and recording process. We don’t want computer jockeys who work up trails and tracks on fancy computer systems and softwares. We want riders to get off their asses and go map the publicly accessible trails that they select for profiling.
Lastly, a general misconception seems to have developed in this thread that the Network has been developed for Noobs…as you call them. On the contrary, the whole idea started with a bunch of very experienced adventure and dual sport riders sitting around a post-ride campfire in a South Florida WMA complaining about not having the time or the money to join organized rides or adhoc rides of those more experienced with the Florida trail systems. They’re the driver here.
DDS joins a hunting club and a jeep club for an annual forest cleanup of the Withlacoochee Forest every year. As previously mentioned, I’m an Ambassador Volunteer with Keep Tampa Bay Beautiful and have long held the belief that people cleaning up the trash is one of the best attention getters. I was sickened by a couple party spots on the Richloam and Croom Trails last weekend. Irrespective, what’s stopping riders from doing some ad hoc cleanups in their favorite trail systems?
The Group that hosts the Hooch in North Georgia, Georgia Recreational Trail Riders Association (G.A.R.T.R.A) seems to me to be a group to look at and maybe model relative to what might be done here in Florida. They have all kinds of work days throughout the year doing various things from trail maintenance to trash collection.
Another thing might be to look at other kinds of recreational activities for ideas…bicycles, jeeps, equestrians, hikers, hunters, anglers. We could do a lot more to improve the public perception and acceptance by the Forestry…but we have to actually do something.
This was just posted by Swampy in FB. Something else DDS does for good PR.
I didn't even know they did this after Devi's Creek. I live so close and would have been glad to help.
Those are great suggestions within local areas. It still doesn't address how routes like the TAT not only remain viable but in most cases are welcomed by locals. How do we achieve that for routes within this state? How do we avoid scenarios like the disaster tgat DR Z posted?
Loaded question, but I suppose a few things would be 1) familiarity with a particular crowd before hand; IE, they see/meet the same riders over a period of time who treat the area that respect the sensitivity of the trail and locale in general (not blasting through on a KTM500 pinned on the rear wheel, for example).
2) minimizing the potential footprint from those that would try and either monetize or turn around and claim it all as "their own" and thus create a territorial war zone over who can ride where and when.
I think a big issue with the blue mountain trail was people illegally offering tours. I know in Tennessee one guy got setup and later charged with running an operation on forestry land without proper permitting or not a licensed "contractor" to operate said event.
So much of that is hard to control now on the interest. You have no idea who is signing up on ADVrider, nor who is visiting other type of sites unless you are truly going to "vet" each person by doing a ride (this goes back to my comments of the "cliques" being a little much of a slap in the face, as most of us have ridden with several people on here and would trust them enough to follow them in the woods on their tracks; sorry some of "us" aren't open to advertise everytime and everywhere we ride).
Not sure if that was directed at me or not (which I'm sure it wasn't since my questions weren't loaded) but I will say that I have zero issue with people monetizing routes that they've worked hard to put together. Hell, part of the reason I got back into offroad riding was Sam's route.
I also have no issue with tours so long as it's done legally and on a companies own routes. I think that tours done properly help to teach people proper land and route stewardship.
Regarding advertising every ride, one of the only reasons I signed up for this site was to participate in ride reports and find cool rides/routes. I met many riders from this site. Some I've followed through the woods on their routes and others have followed me. I enjoy sharing locations, pictures and stories of rides just as thousands of other on this site do.
I have no interest in being a "world police" type. The bad elements are omnipresent and I haven't the time or the patience to consider them in all of my decisions. The reason I asked the questions I did is because in this instance I am considering them so I'm attempting to find ways to share fun routes with riders while having it be a positive experience for land management , owners and the towns that routes run through. It's worked for the TAT and others and I'd like to know their secret.
Seriously, no one is asking anyone to do that ^. I suspect that ultimately my blog....West Central....and, most, will be 6-8 trail systems tops, mostly WMAs, that I'll just work to keep current. That will be a decent assortment of trails for someone who finds themselves jonesin' a ride on a weekend in West Central Florida, or whenever they have some free time to hit the trails.
As to monetizing the information, that's just not within the Network's control because the blogs are privately owned. We actually did address this in the guidelines, but all we could do is ask the hosts to use their best judgment and if we didn't like the content in their blogs we have the ability to kick their blog out of the Network. However, yes, it's a public network so the blog host that was kicked out would still be able to see the NEtwork online, just like everyone else, but those using the Network would not be able to see the violator's blog....fwiw.
Overall, good points in your post, dude.
The Croom write up on the site is amazing and must have taking a lot of time to put together. But I too think that publicly posting this info is not in our best interest. Maybe put a password in front of the info and have users reach out to have someone maybe a group who will talk to users wanting the info, to make sure they are dualsport riders.
I think this could work. I'm thinking just because a road is public it could very well not meet the criteria. There are plenty of CADS routes and DDS routes through residential that would piss off the locals.
From I've seen on the web of the TAT and the small portion I wheeled in mo. (war woman) the areas are very economically depressed and any money brought in to the area is welcomed. Not so much in Florida.
WMA info is a great resource. A n00b could get into a real mess in Richloam just aimlessly wandering. Think the NE corner.
Thank you. Honestly, I am not a computer jockey at all, although I currently have about seven blogs. Most are bike-specific and dated though from the standpoint that I don’t have the motorcycles anymore. However, people still read and post in them so I leave them up. It’s just that the blogger platform is totally turnkey and actually quite fun to mess around with. You can make some nice presentations with minimal effort on that platform. I have something sort of along the lines of this idea called "Trails and Waterways" in reference to West Central Florida Hiking and Paddle Sports. I've fallen off it's upkeep in the last year due to personal issues, but I'll get back into it as I really like those recreational activities as much as dual sport. Add fishing to paddle sports, and I might like it better than.
Anyway, on the Trails and Track site, I give up. I’ve now locked it down and will either strip it of content or keep it for private use. I do notice a feature in blogger that you can lock it and then give permission on a user by user basis (someone with a Google Account). I suppose that's an option. I really don’t think people looked close enough at it to understand how it works. It seemed to me, based on real life, in-person discussion with adventure and dual sport enthusiasts, that a problem existed in the community. You all (all posters) mostly argue that it would create other, perhaps bigger problems. I don't agree that this particular idea would cause the kind of rift you think it would, but....eh.