Front End Wag?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by meat popsicle, May 24, 2005.

  1. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,565
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    Thanks fellas. :ricky

    I found some more things (lots of variables in this - stephen wasn't kiddin'). One of the players (but likely not in my case) is steering dampener. not a Scotts like potatoho's but the integral dampening in the steering head. :dunno how that works but it can wear and then oscillations are easier w/out that dampening.

    about the dynamic balancing (which NOBODY has acknowledged :scratch) I found this from Metzeler:

    "METZELER recommends dynamic balancing for rims over 2.5-inch width."

    http://www.us.metzelermoto.com/product_info/pcare/safety/

    :ear
    #21
  2. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,565
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    :komet

    ok, so are the rim widths 1.6" x 21" front and 2.5" x 18" rear? then the rear should be dynamically balanced; front couldn't hurt but its not recommended. how does dynamic balancing work?
    #22
  3. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,565
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    :komet

    well meat, read this:

    http://www.aicautosite.com/garage/subsys/batireba.asp

    "There are two basic types of wheel balance: static and dynamic. A tire and wheel are in static balance when the weight of the wheel and tire assembly is distributed equally around the axis of wheel rotation (the spindle or axle). If static balance exists, the wheel will have no tendency to rotate by itself, regardless of its position. If static balance does not exist, the wheel will always rotate until the heaviest spot is at the bottom. When the wheel is out of balance statically, centrifugal force acting on the heavy spot will cause the wheel to tramp as the vehicle is driven. The speed at which tramp occurs depends on the amount the wheel is out of balance. Usually, the greater the wheel unbalance, the lower the speed at which the tramp occurs.

    Dynamic balance means "balance in motion." If a wheel and tire assembly is in dynamic balance, it must also be in static balance. This does not mean, however, that a wheel and tire assembly in static balance is also in dynamic balance.

    The requirements for dynamic balance not only include the equal distribution of weight around the axis of rotation, but also equal weight distribution with regard to the center line of the tire and wheel."

    :scratch

    [​IMG]

    ahh, that looks like it could cause my phenomenon. but rims under 2.5" are not supposed to need dynamic balance. probably this is not it.

    :dunno
    #23
  4. Hipster

    Hipster Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,436
    Location:
    Mpls, Mn.
    Last time I was at road race (where top speeds were around 175 mph) I noticed that the teams had static wheel balancing equipment in their pit area. I didn't actually see them balancing tires, but I assume they static balance their tire.
    #24
  5. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,565
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    so maybe its not important in MC tires? not wide enough to count? Metzeler disagrees. I dunno what to think but before I go stomping around asking for a dynamic balance on my MC tires I would like to think something.

    PS - tire pressure lowered to 25psi cold - rose to 28psi after a 5 mi ride w/ half freeway. "seemed" better... but now I have developed a phobia :lol3 when I have time I am going to run thru the suggestions.
    #25
  6. AusieRob

    AusieRob Just Gas It!!

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    377
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Well I hope your happy with our assistance in answering your Static vs Dynamic question. :uhhuh


    I kept my mouth shut as I've never used it. I'd written it off as a nice to have. On my off-road race bikes I didn't always bother with even static balancing. In full on race conditions the tracks are so rough and tight with speeds rarely exceeding 70MPH for anything longer than a few seconds that it was never an issue "to me". Anyway, so many times they'd fly off clrimped, glued, tapped, etc.... Though on dessert races and we'd balance the wheels but still, often the weights were missing at the end of the event, especially on the front. For the road race bikes we just static balanced and tried to balance any weights on each side of rim.

    I hear yar on the paranoia thing. In Feb I was on my way the DVD Daze 10 on the RT and the Rear Drive self destructed. Dealer had replaced the rear seal but did something wrong, he did replace the final at no cost so I'm happy. Anyway, ever since then, every sharp bump I hit I'm thinking that its the same clunk sounds as when it failed. I know it just my brain but disconcerting just the same. :cry


    Good luck with your de-bugging :thumb
    #26
  7. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Oddometer:
    10,718
    Location:
    Puget Sound
    Christ... am I ever glad I stayed out of this one. :wink:
    #27
  8. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,565
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    :dunno

    remember no matter where you go, there you are. :D
    #28
  9. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Oddometer:
    10,718
    Location:
    Puget Sound
    And thankfully, I was never here. :nod
    #29
  10. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,565
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    anyone typing to the contrary will get a visit from the KOD! :patch

    nothing to see here, move along! :mulie
    #30
  11. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,565
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    thankfully a kind soul heard my cries for help... :D

    thanks for the info!

    ps - with the RT at DVD did you miss the 640a?
    #31
  12. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Oddometer:
    10,718
    Location:
    Puget Sound
    KOD has authorized this guy...

    [​IMG]

    to wake you up from your cozy warm bed at night... and scare the shit out of you.
    #32
  13. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,565
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    :eek1

    i don't need to be waking up for that fella to scare the poop outa me... :arg
    #33
  14. AusieRob

    AusieRob Just Gas It!!

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    377
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Well, you see I never made it.
    Got as far as Bakersfield when bad noises and clunks started coming out of the bike. Very bad noises and clunks!

    So, I chicken out of heading into the wilderness on a self destructing M/C and took the wimpy option of heading to the nearest BM dealer! So I turned north and headed the 110 miles to Fresno. That was a long long hundred miles, I can tell you with all that noise and stuff. At Fresno, they drain the final drive and out came HUGE chunks of metal, some up to 1/4" square. The magnet was so full of metal that it couldn't hold anymore!! Bloody scary when you think that I was just coming down the I5 at sub Mach speeds... I was very lucky that the final drive didn't lockup. :eek1
    #34
  15. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,565
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    :doh, sorry, I am at work and my current job doesn't require a brain much of the time; it's on power save mode... :D

    Yikes! I won't even think about what that might do... luckly my brain is still in power save mode! :lol3

    I sure do want to explore DV... :tb
    #35
  16. AusieRob

    AusieRob Just Gas It!!

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    377
    Location:
    San Francisco
    I with yar on that one! I've been there a couple of times on the RT (when it didn't break). Very beautiful place, I love it. I have so many people tell me that the best parts are only accessable from the dirt.

    So I'm up for it, though not in Feb as in DVD daze, to bloody cold for me crossing the high bits on an Adv. The RT is fine, put up the screen, turn on the heating, turn up the stereo and ride.... :ricky

    How about in the fall???
    #36
  17. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,565
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    Sounds good to me!

    I have to spread out trips so that is more likely than trying to explore sooner: besides DV in the summer, well you wouldnt want to hang out on the valley floor... but the highlands are cool. I was there long ago (in a car) and it was 104 in the shade on the valley floor but only 85 in the sun up at Augeberry point. Nice cool breeze too! Wonder how long one could stay up high around there?

    North of DV there is an iteresting ride in August:
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77497&highlight=white+mountain

    That was the next big trip I was shooting for; most of the time I am just sneaking out for local dirt rides (t'ain't much :cry). Metcalf right now cause its real close to me but I should get to Hollister, Carnegie, Frank Raines, and Clear Creek soon. I think pretty soon the red stickers are out so it gets mo'betta for us big boys! :freaky It is fun trying to find some open dirt around here; keep your ears peeled! :D
    #37
  18. Reformed DucFlogger

    Reformed DucFlogger Inventor Of The Wheel Mk2

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2003
    Oddometer:
    1,497
    Location:
    Peoples Republic Of Canuckistan
    Shade tree dude's opinion here, so....

    Think of last time car tires were balanced:

    1. Static (like most bikes are done by home mechanics), put wheel on spindle, spin slowly, add weight at 'light' section and ensure that wheel doesn't rotate on own.

    You were right in your two planes idea - static ensures tire weight from center of spindle to rim at all points is same.

    2. Dynamic is when mechanic put wheel on enclosed and motorized balancing machine which spins tire at speeds and measures static balance and distribution of weight from centerline of tire to edge across all points.

    Never had a bike with balance issue (had one with loose head bearings), but if what an out of balance car tire can do to a car steering wheel at speed (70mph, steering wheel wobbles back and forth thru TDC by notable amount), I would SUSPECT bike handling will be very sensitive to balancing. Or does it depend on amount of rubber contact with road? Could royallt screwed-up spokes cause a tire to be out of dynamic balance?
    #38
  19. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14,565
    Location:
    Circumlocution Office of Little Dorrit
    Metzeler says as much for rims 2.5" or wider, so I suspect as much too. I liked the idea of putting the weights on both sides of the rim (1/2 and 1/2 eh?), but the spoke weights should do the same mounted in the middle. Can't think of a way to measure dynamic balance with a DIY setup; the pros use microprocessors and such.

    I am going to run the laundry list from the helpful folks and see what happens. Last resort is going in for a dynamic balance on the rear (front is pretty narrow but maybe...).

    The current rear "required" no weights to be balanced on the fancy machine. (But the bugger put it on backwards and then didn't even say sorry when I came back to have it reversed... jerk.) Reversed the tire and it still didn't need any weights... pretty damn lucky if you ask me. I think it could be unbalanced even though the "pros" did it.

    BTW, the front got one big fat weight that won't stay crimped; I will replace it when I get some weights of my own.
    #39
  20. Reformed DucFlogger

    Reformed DucFlogger Inventor Of The Wheel Mk2

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2003
    Oddometer:
    1,497
    Location:
    Peoples Republic Of Canuckistan
    ...@#$%^& word "pro" means less and less these days. It seems the more the car/bike mfg's make you go the "pros" with needlessly complex hardware, the more you have to learn to do it yourself after some "pro"phylactic f**k's it up for the Nth time.
    #40