Fuel Pump Failure Warning

Discussion in 'Ridiculous streetbikes with 6 CPUs and too much HP' started by Graniteone, Mar 18, 2016.

  1. Graniteone

    Graniteone 3,2,1...Beer me! Supporter

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    I have a 2015 1190 R with 1200 miles on the bike now.

    I bought the bike last fall and within the first 300 miles the bike cut out and flashed a Fuel Pump Failure Warning. I turned off the bike and opened the tank to find there was pressure/ vapor situation happening. I was able to get the bike started and thought I found a crimped air pressure relief line to the tank. I sorted out the tank line I thought was bodged up and proceeded to ride only to have the bike stall again with same warning 10 mins later. After letting the bike cool down and sloshing the fuel around in the tank I was able to limp the bike back home some 70 miles.

    Once back to my garage I pulled the pump out of the tank and externally examined everything I could. Nothing seemed amiss. After reassembling everything and calling my dealer to see if they have ever heard of this happening. Which of course they hadn't. The bike ran fine for about 200 miles and then it did it again in stop and go traffic. Son of a bitch!

    Took the bike to a really good dealer in Loveland , Co who I trust and had them install the Rottweiler air intake and I removed the evap. canister. Told them about my issue but nothing was done to the bike as it was running fine once at the shop. Everything seemed fine for about another 150 miles when it happened again. Pull over on side of the road let bike cool for a few minutes and all is good. This is a re-occuring event but is very hard to duplicate when the dealer rides the bike as could happen in 10 miles or 100.

    So my question, is anyone else going thru this? I have read various threads with folks having issues with KTM Fuel pumps. Wondering if anyone else has gone thru the same thing. I am trying to convince the dealer to replace the fuel pump as the starting point.
    #1
    ben bodie likes this.
  2. Lutarious

    Lutarious Renaissance Man

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    I haven't had that problem, but I would start with the fuel filters that reside on rhe fuel pump. There's a video on the videos thread.
    #2
  3. Gimme 2

    Gimme 2 wheels , with nobs

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    happen to me on the first of the fi 990's. but i could feel it happen the power became less and less then nothing.
    i hear what you saying about having somebody diagnose such an intermittent problem, frustrating!
    anyhow they updated the pressure of the pump and fitted new fliters. and it was fine.

    heat can effect it too, excessive heat makes the fuel unable to be passed thru the impeller of the pump.
    how long has the bike been sitting for ?
    have you pissed off the old fuel and started with fresh?
    have you changed the filters?
    #3
  4. Tarmac Kid

    Tarmac Kid Doesn't Like Stuff

    Joined:
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    It just gets worse. Once it shows up the cuts happen sooner in the ride and the rev range and won't go away until the bike sits overnight. KTM wanted me to believe it was the airbox on my '13 and guess what? That didn't fix it. One ride, cuts happen again and take it back to the dealer and they finally replaced the pump. It runs fine now. Well the oil leak is fixed, the airbox is filtering air, and the pump is fueling the engine. Now if only KTM would agree that a bike bucking up and down at 30-50 mph is not normal and needs to be fixed.

    I really want to love this bike but it is hard. Doubly so when KTM will let major quality gaffes continue to make it to the showroom floor. IF Randy DePuniet or Ryan Dungey said that their bike was visibly bouncing up and down entering and through every corner would KTM tell them it is normal? NO! You and I are paying for those race programs so why can't we get a niggle free product? I really wish Yamaha would put the R1 engine in the S10 and drop some weight so I can get rid of this piece of crap.
    #4
  5. Gimme 2

    Gimme 2 wheels , with nobs

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    show me a niggle free product and i'll make America great again!
    respect gains respect, thats why those guys get the help.
    patience and understanding goes a long way in bike setup .
    #5
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  6. Graniteone

    Graniteone 3,2,1...Beer me! Supporter

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    Well, after a bunch of time trying to figure out what the issue is my dealer replaced the main brain at the rear of the bike and all is well. Or atleast we think it is, the bike no longer stalls after it gets heated up. Picked it up this past Friday and rode the snot of it on Sunday. More hard riding is very much needed.

    Cheers!
    S~
    #6
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  7. lakecntyrider

    lakecntyrider Adventurer

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    Good to hear you found it. I had the same problem with my 1290 SA yesterday. Fuel pump failure warning. Thanks for providing your experience. Helps me when discussing it with the dealer.
    #7
  8. doubleshot

    doubleshot Adventurer

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    i had the same prob yesterday 25 kms after i had my first service. They came and picked myself and the bike up and took us back to the workshop put some fuel in it and away she went, worked out the fuel cock on the right hand side was turned off. they implied my kids must of been playing with the bike and must of tuned it off. lol when i said yeh my baby is 20 and lives 5 hours away, someone hasnt had it on from day one, go figure, glad it didnt happen out bush by myself and no service. I didnt know this bike had fuel taps all my other bikes have had those couplings that click in and out
    #8
  9. lakecntyrider

    lakecntyrider Adventurer

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    No time to debug, and other issues with the bike, so just took it into the dealer. Petcock not opened after they serviced the fuel gauge. Need to spend a few minutes doing these things myself ...
    #9
  10. SQD8R

    SQD8R Eat squids and be merry

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    I had a similar situation with my husky 630; your symptoms mirror mine. Check the Husky threads. Sorry I cannot recall how I resolved this, sold the Husky well over a yr ago.
    #10
  11. Graniteone

    Graniteone 3,2,1...Beer me! Supporter

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    I have put some aggressive miles on the bike since getting it back. Haven't had an issue since replacing the main brain. Seems to be all good.
    #11
  12. superdan00

    superdan00 Adventurer

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    fuel pump failure, when riding and before start. just wanted to add a symptom, when you turn on the key to the bike, you don't hear the fuel pump "initialize" (for lack of better word). and when it does, it doesn't do it with the same sound it did when new. no pressure issues for me under the gas cap.

    superdan00
    #12
  13. ICERIDER

    ICERIDER Adventure Rider

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    Well, as you can see from above the easiest and probably quickest fix is to get a set of new filters/O-rings mailed to you and fix it yourself. Seems like taking it to the dealer is painful. I know warranty is supposed to cover this but the other good thing about doing it yourself is you get familiar with it and can deal with it on the trail.

    Inmates gugglemonster and gefer know all about this and sell all that you need.

    There's a slight chance your wiring is loose so fiddle with the connector at the tank.

    If it still doesn't run after that, chances are your pump is also damaged by running dry/hot due to possible blocked filter.

    This is the drop-in replacement pump apparently:

    http://fuelperformance.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=365_359_90_175&product_id=5681

    http://www.highflowfuel.com/i-23899...owfuel.com/search.html?q=1190+fuel+pump&go=Go (the pic is not the actual pump)

    Of course it could be the brain, but did they really change it or just find out it was filters after all?
    #13
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  14. JB650

    JB650 Adventurer

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    Had the same thing happen to my 2016 1190R on a trip out in Colorado. Pump failed four times, bike overheating. 2700 miles on bike. No dealer in Colorado had fuel pump, filters or any interest at all in even looking at it. Had to U-Haul it home. I couldn't be less impressed with a product at this point. At the only dealer in Wisconsin now that will even attempt to look at it and he can't look at for 3 weeks. KTM may be a good product, don't really see it right now, but their U.S. dealer network is really lacking parts and interest.
    #14
  15. ICERIDER

    ICERIDER Adventure Rider

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    Sounds terrible sorry. This reminds me of the water pump story on the 950. A simple little part which ends trips and wrecks motors yet costs $5.

    Just like dealing with a flat, I think every 1190/1290 owner should carry a spare fuel pump/filters/O-ring and know how to change them on the trail. It's the only way, and actually would deal with one of the very few stoppers this bike has. To hell with the warranty.
    #15
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  16. Jaimoto

    Jaimoto Spaniard in Chile

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    Sorry to hear that mate. Sounds a lot like what my bike is doing, how many bars on the water temp gauge?
    Mine starts overheating, then the pump fails.
    #16
  17. JB650

    JB650 Adventurer

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    It would be showing 5 bars on the temp and the oil would be about 220F. At that point it would just shut down. I have a CJ Designs gas cap and when I would loosen it the tank wasn't pressurized but the fuel was definitely boiling. Letting it cool I could get it going again but would never rev over about 5000 rpm. Sometimes when the pump fail warning was on the pump wouldn't even run when turning the key on. There is definitely a problem with the fueling system on the 1190.
    #17
  18. ICERIDER

    ICERIDER Adventure Rider

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    The overheating does seem to be an issue right enough. Don't know why it does that.

    The fuelling issue is a result of the overheating in my view. As described many times before if you have a blocking pre-filter the increased fuel temp causes vaporisation in the pump suction. No/intermittent liquid fuel causes fluctuating fuel pressure, loss of power, overheating of pump etc etc. Letting it cool raises the vaporising point and pumps liquid fuel again but pump is cooked, filter getting more blocked. You're trip is over. No "fault code" shown so most shops don't have a clue. Probably throw a new pump and less restrictive pre-filter at it and all is good in the world again.
    #18
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  19. 2Wheelfury

    2Wheelfury Pathfinder

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    This just happened over the weekend. I was in stop and go traffic, 86° 2 bars on the fuel gauge. It dies while idling. "Fuel pump Failure" message displayed. I started it a couple of times and it died, push it to the side of the road... Luckily, 5 minutes later two guys in a pick up with dirt bikes come up behind me. I do the international " I'm out of gas gesture" and how lucky of an s.o.b. am I? They stop in the middle of traffic, grab the can out of the back and head over! I opened the gas cap, no whoosh sound. He hands me the can and I start to pourthe ice cold elixer in to her belly. At this time traffic is really backing up and the driver looks at his buddy and they both agree he should pullover on to the shoulder. I hand back the can, close my cap and say thank you profusely. The old lady insists on paying these fine young lads a 10 spot. They resist but concede. Since I didn't even take off my gloves or helmet, I just turned the key and she fired up. Traffic was stopped, the lane was clear, I made a u-turn heading back the way I came. I just GPS my way back toward the highway stopping at a gas station 15 minutes later. No "whosh "sound, filled it to the top. Past a few cars on back roads and blasted up the highway for an hour. The bike ran normal like nothing happened.

    Did some reading on fuel pump failure. 86°, I did not have a vacumm problem. No boiling fuel. Both petcocks open. Filters don't seem to be clogged, 2 bars on gauge, started the trip with about a half a tank maybe a little less. The gauge dropped down like normal.

    Removed fuel gauge and turned it upside down and right side up a dozen times, no sticking .
    Did I run out of gas? OR Did the fuel pump seize then cool and unseize? Is heat causing an open circuit in the pump? I had a Jeep ECM that would get hot and then it wouldn't start. I would put snow or water on it, two minutes later it would start everytime until I finally replaced it 6 months later.
    I ordered the Quantum replacement pump. The dude working there said other brands, were failing from heat issues but theirs weren't. I have a spare filter kit I will install. Any ideas on whats happening?

    Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk
    #19
  20. Jaimoto

    Jaimoto Spaniard in Chile

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    If you got a Fuel Pump Failure message you didnt run out of fuel
    A few of us (lots of us?) are in the same boat, mine will be replaced under warranty, exactly the same symptoms you re describing. Once you see the warning message it only gets worse

    http://advrider.com/index.php?threa...emon-reared-its-head-on-my-road-trip.1167265/

    I think you will be fine starting from zero with a new Quantum pump, clean filters and Guglemonster prefilter at the tank neck
    #20