Garmin 60csx .vs 62s

Discussion in 'GPS 101 - Which GPS For Me' started by AFCFORME, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    This does not say anything about how may track points per track. The 10,000 points are for the Active Log not Saved Tracks. I am quite sure the main memory has dedicated space for each Saved Track and there are 200 of them and each has 2,000 points possible.
    #21
  2. Cannonshot

    Cannonshot Having a Nice Time Administrator Super Moderator

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    Jerry,

    I am not guessing. I am reading Garmin's specs. Why publish specs if they don't mean anything? Nowhere in the specs or the user manual does it say anything about 200 X 2,000. They do consistently note the 10,000 point limit though. :dunno

    But, I would appreciate it if you would conduct a test with your unit to see if when you upload a file from MapSource that has a track segment that exceeds 500 points, if the unit (still) truncates it at 500 points. This was not covered in the specs which is why I noted that I was curious to find out.

    Thanks Jerry, and if Garmin is wrongly reporting the 10,000 track point limit in their specifications for the unit, please let them know so they change their product literature. This limitation, and the lousy power plug set up, are the reasons I haven't upgraded to a 62.
    #22
  3. Cannonshot

    Cannonshot Having a Nice Time Administrator Super Moderator

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  4. eram310

    eram310 Been here awhile

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    On the 60CX your own active log track is limited to 10,000 trackpoints.
    Uploading existing tracks from mapsource to the 60CX is limited to 500 trackpoints each and a max of 20 tracks.


    There is a workaround. If you are only interested in having one track loaded, you can rename the uploaded track to active log and that will allow you to use up to 10,000 trackpoints.

    I personally do not find this method very useful when I go on multiple day rides.
    #24
  5. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    I often accidently try to upload tracks with more than 500 points and my 60 cx always gives me an error message saying that they are truncated. I checked once and indeed they are.

    For navigation purposes filtering down to 500 points has rarely caused problems. Sometimes I will have to hunt around a few minutes for a turn, but that is the worst that happens.

    On my 60 the default for tracks is "on", so you don't have to worry about turning them on, but I guess you can turn them off if you want to.
    #25
  6. Cannonshot

    Cannonshot Having a Nice Time Administrator Super Moderator

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    The question is does this 500 point truncation that we all dealt with in the 60 series still take place in the 62 series? Not a big issue, but it would be nice to know one way or the other. :ear
    #26
  7. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    Actually, you can have a lot more than just one track over 500 points using this technique. Name them ACTIVE LOG 001, ACTIVE LOG 002, etc. I've often had 50 or more tracks loaded at one time using this approach, several of them well over 500 points. The down side is you can't turn them off, they all will be the same color, and they take away from your track log space if you're trying to record where you've been.

    I've moved on from those limitations without buying an expensive GPS. Now I convert my HUNDREDS of tracks into a map, then load the map. I can pick the color and width of each track, each track can have as many points as I want, I can create a separate map for each day with just the tracks for that day, I can turn each map on or off easily, and it leaves my track log 100% available for recordring. All this on my 76cx!
    http://www.gpx2img.com/
    #27
  8. Cannonshot

    Cannonshot Having a Nice Time Administrator Super Moderator

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    That looks like a nice product!

    A lot of us that share/publish tracks for others to download from the web and then upload and use are interested in knowing the limitations of each of the units so that we can produce a GPX file that even very basic users can easily upload and that will "fit" into their units without a lot of extra effort.

    For quite a while, the standard has been no more than 20 segments of no more than 500 points each. Many of us have made some adjustments for individuals who use Zumo or PN units so that the file fits the limitations of those units.

    I am curious as to what the track segment limit of track points is on the 62. If it is greater than the 500 we have dealt with in the past, it would be good to know for sure what the new limit is. With up to 200 segments and 10,000 points total, there is some nice flexibility in producing files that would work well with the 62.

    Of course, with so many 60 series in use, I guess we will be structuring most files we share within the 20 X 500 structure anyway.
    #28
  9. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    Sorry, I don't have one either, and my question was based on thinking you had one. I will be happy to make a file for some one to test with. My answer is based on being a senior system engineer. It would ber very complicated firmware to have total memory space for all tracks vs limit for each track.

    To all the other smart guys answereing some question that was not asked (how to get more performance out of a 60) Cannonshot is trying to find out exactly what a 62 does. However llike you pointed out, the 62 is DOA. Look at a 78 just like the 76 is far better than 60.

    The 62/78 just don't have enough added features over 60/76 and has a couple drawbacks for me. I am watcing the Montana and waiting for them to finally finish the firmware without screwing it up and for the price to drop. I like it as it looks like the first unit that would work on both bike and car.

    I will ask RWAMF, I am sure he has done it.
    #29
  10. Spiritwalker2222

    Spiritwalker2222 Been here awhile

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    That is incorrect.

    The 62 series can hold 200 tracks with 10,000 track points each. For a total of 2 million possible track points! At least that's what the brochure says. As a test I successfully loaded a track to my 62S with 14,000 track points.
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  11. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    What do you mean successfully? It has 10,000 point max but you loaded a 14,000 point track? sounds like you were more than sucessfull.
    #31
  12. rwamf

    rwamf Follow me

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    Delorme records track files at up to 20,000 point per track, there is no 10 track limit to how many you can save( Only limit is space on your SD card or Internal Memory)" No waypoint or track limits – send to, read from SD card - Save waypoints and tracks as .gpx files, to internal memory or to SD cards, with no maximum limits"
    The Delorme will only let you show one track at a time, that is it's handy cap , but since you can import track files from the Sd card or from Internal memory with out a PC, to me that makes up for it.
    Plus with the Delorme I just make draw layers of my track files so I can display them as highly visible tracks, you can turn on or off the layers individually or you can display all of them at once.
    [​IMG]
    .
    As far as the 62 and 78 I have loaded a couple of 7000+ point and a 9000+ track files on them and I know one of the units already had 35 tracks on it when I uploaded the files, I did not she them Truncated like the 60 does or just load a portion of the file.
    The Specs are " Holds 200 tracks @ up to 10,000 points each" They limit the recording to 10,000 points for each track.
    #32
  13. Cannonshot

    Cannonshot Having a Nice Time Administrator Super Moderator

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    Thanks for the info on the 10,000 X 200! If that is the case, it makes one of the newer models much more attractive.

    These track specs posted on the web are spot on since they address tracks that are logged within the unit.

    60csx
    [​IMG]

    62
    [​IMG]


    Perhaps they need to publish a spec about the limitations of what can be uploaded on a particular model? Not a word about it in the manual. :dunno


    As a side note, I looked around Garmin documentation for information about truncating at 500 for the 60 series.

    In MapSource help I found the following remark:
    "NOTE: Tracks with more than 500 track points may be truncated on some Garmin GPS devices. Check your device's owner's manual for more information."

    I checked the manual for the 60csx as they suggested. No information there.


    FAQs on the Garmin web site revealed this info which did not indicate an exception for the new models. Hope that it is just old generic info that hasn't been updated for the new units.

    "Outdoor GPS devices can accept tracks that are saved and/or created from either MapSource or BaseCamp. The tracks will transfer exactly how they are created in the mapping program unless the track is over 500 points. Once the track is over 500 track points, the device will truncate the track. In other words, the device will condense the track below the 500 point limit. (I just did a test on a 60 Csx to confirm my previous experience with the 60 series. Just so no one gets confused and thinks that "condense" produces the same result as filtering to reduce points. It doesn't. Points beyond the 500 point limit are lopped off leaving gaps between track segments. And of course, the unit only uploads a total of 20 track segments.)

    If you would like to send over a track that is over 500 points and do not want it truncated, then rename the track ACTIVE LOG in the mapping program. Right-click on the track name and choose Properties to rename. The Properties field will also show you the number of track points.

    This will upload the track to the current track log instead of as a saved track. Ensure the current track is cleared out before sending the newly renamed track."


    I went to the support pages and searched for info on the 62st, read the 80 related FAQs posted there, and even watched the training videos and found no specific info on the 200 segments or 10,000 points or upload limitations.


    This question and answer did give some background on the newer units in general.

    "What are the file limitations of my GPS Device?

    GPSMAP 62 / 78
    • 2000 gpx files (each gpx file can contain a mixture of waypoints, geocaches, routes, and tracks)
    • 2000 waypoints (when the gpx file containing a waypoint is deleted, the waypoint is no longer available on the unit)
    • 5000 geocaches (when the gpx file containing a geocache is deleted, the geocache is no longer available on the unit)"
    (No info on tracks/segments in this answer.)


    A question about mass storage revealed the following:
    "MapSource can't receive tracks, waypoints, and routes from a number of mass storage devices as MapSource only reads and writes to the Current.gpx file. Mass storage devices pertaining to this article are the following GPS series or devices:

    Oregon x50 • Dakota • GPSMAP 62 • GPSMAP 78 • Colorado • Rino 600 series • Astro 320 • eTrex 10 / 20 / 30 • Montana

    These devices use a different method to manage the tracks, waypoints, and routes with Garmin software. These devices create new GPX files for each saved tracks, waypoints and routes and are located in the (Drive Letter)\Garmin\GPX folder when the device is connected to the computer. The Current.gpx file on your mass storage device only records the current track data and is located in the (Drive Letter)\Garmin\GPX\Current folder.

    Note: The GPX file with date suffix for example Waypoints_10-Aug-09.gpx indicates the date that the waypoint was created using the device. The GPX file with a number suffix for example Waypoints1.gpx indicates that the data was created in BaseCamp."

    (Sheds some light on the changed structure.)


    I am a little disappointed that more information about the (upload) track points, segments, and truncating was not readily available via their manuals and website. Certainly such significant increased capacity would be a strong selling point for their products? :dunno

    I think I'll take my own advice and call Garmin to let them know that there seems to be a lack information in their manuals, on their web site, and in their specs concerning the upload specs for some of these units. There is enough track recording, editing, drawing, and sharing in the user communities that this information is pretty relevant and should be more visible.
    #33
  14. Cannonshot

    Cannonshot Having a Nice Time Administrator Super Moderator

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    I understand what you are saying about being able to call up GPX files from storage to be able to access almost "limitless" tracks.

    However, on their "Details & Specs" tab they list the following remark:
    "Holds up to 10 tracks (20,000 points per track), 1,500 user-defined waypoints, and 100 routes; endlessly expandable via GPX transfer to SD cards."
    (Why publish a limit if there isn't one?) :dunno

    So, I am assuming that the limit of 10 X 20,000 that they list in their specs is what the unit could upload from a single GPX file? The "endlessly expandable" part would be that I could fill my SD card with many GPX files if each was within the limits of 10 tracks X 20,000 points?

    I ask this from the perspective of what will be an acceptably structured single GPX file of a ride I want to share with a PN user. In the past I have restructured a 20 X 500 GPX file set up for a Garmin to a 10 X 500+ file for a PN user and it worked just fine. The 20 X 500 did not.
    #34
  15. tbirdsp

    tbirdsp REMF

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    I always took the 200 tracks - 10,000 points spec for the 62/78 models to mean you could have 200 X 10,000 = 2,000,000 points :dunno I don't have any experience with those units though. It just seemed silly for them to keep the same 10,000 point total limit on saved tracks of the 60/76 (20X500) but split it up 200X50:huh

    Garmin has certainly done silly stuff in the past though:D

    Totally agree about the piss-poor specs they publish. Nearly impossible to get any detailed information - and it's only gotten worse.

    I'd guess the DeLorme is kind of like routes on my Nuvi 500 - you can have 10 imported at any one time, but you can store pretty much unlimited routes on the microSD card. Just have to delete some of the 10 to make room then import the new ones.
    #35
  16. Cannonshot

    Cannonshot Having a Nice Time Administrator Super Moderator

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    I'm going to see if we can't get them to put up some details on uploads for the new units on their FAQ/support page. No doubt there are many people who would like to see some details in writing.
    #36
  17. Bake

    Bake adventurer

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    I had a 276c. It broke at 30 hours at the power pins. They wanted $175 to fix it. I declined. Sold it.

    I have a 60csx. The display became so dim it's unreadable in sunlight, within 24 hours of use. They want $100 to look at it. I would never buy a Garmin again.

    Used to be they had not much competition, but that's no longer true.
    #37
  18. tbirdsp

    tbirdsp REMF

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    My GPS V, while seriously obsolete, is still going strong 9 years after purchase.

    60Cx bought in early 2007 (to replace one I bought and lost) is still fine today. Battery cover did break, $10 replacement. Unit has not been babied, Divide ride in '07 plus many dual sport and rocky trail rides. All use has been on thumpers (KLR650, TE250, KLX250S, Riva 125 scooter). I do have a Touratech mount on the KLR but on the others just RAM stuff.

    Nuvi 500, refurb bought in early 2010, never an issue.

    Nuvi 295W I use in my cage, no problems.

    :dunno
    #38
  19. Cannonshot

    Cannonshot Having a Nice Time Administrator Super Moderator

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    I contacted Garmin this morning and talked to them about the upload issue. The customer service rep I talked to was helpful in nature but didn't have a lot of knowledge about the upload issues. I explained the issues we had with the 60 series and that people wanted to know if there was a similar issue with the 62 series. His keyboard search didn't seem to reveal much information. In the end he consulted with someone else.

    His general answer was that the new units are structured as mass storage devices (unlike the 60s) and that because of that they did not have the upload limitation that the 60s did.

    When I suggested that they put up a FAQ/answer related to the 62 series on their support page, he suggested that if I check out the forum.garmin.com site I would likely find information there. So, I guess Garmin is relying on users to detail the function of their units for them? :D

    Anyway, if the unit functions as a mass storage device one should be able to upload a file with up to 200 tracks of up to 10,000 points each.

    Once you start digging around in some forums in addition to the Garmin forum, you find out the details of how the new mass storage units save tracks and move things around from what is loaded on a card to memory and the like (but not back to the card). This will be good to investigate and understand if you are going to be pulling up tracks from a large catalog of your material stored in the memory of the unit.

    I started looking at some forums where some of the users have posted some great information. Scanning forums could go on for a long time, so I'll share a few links here that will prove useful. There are many more to refer to beyond these. Lots of great information, apart from tracks, about the new units as well. Worth looking into.

    60 vs 62

    Geocaching forum

    62 review

    78 sd

    Another 60 vs 62

    62 tracks

    wiki 62 and 78

    wiki

    Garmin forum
    #39
  20. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    I think the 62/78 was a step in between the new generation units like the Montana.

    I played with a 78 for a day and it wasn't that much different than 60/76. the big difference was that it was better to copy a .gpx file with new tracks than use Mapsource to Download tracks. It keeps all tracks in psudo .gpx files so if you just download tracks it makes a Temp.gpx file with them in it. Now if you try to downoad more tracks from Mapsource it erases the first Temp file and makes a new one with just the new tracks.

    The other thing is Garmin .gpx files don't have the On/Off bit so all tracks download as Off and user must turn each on On in the 62/78.
    #40