Garmin Montana 600: maximum waypoints?

Discussion in 'Mapping & Navigation' started by txmxrider, Jun 24, 2020.

  1. txmxrider

    txmxrider Been here awhile

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    Hello, hoping someone here can answer a question for me. I've spent several months creating two gpx files in Basecamp in preparation for a two week trip to UT and CO this summer. I have one file for UT and one for CO and they are a combination of routes and tracks. I downloaded other people's tracks and routes where applicable, deleted the parts that deviated from my planned path, and then used the New Track and the New Route features in Basecamp to fill in the gaps and create a map for my proposed trip.

    I'm now 99% finished with the two files and I was under the impression that all I have to do is move the files over to my Garmin and go ride but one of my riding buddies told me that there is a maximum number of waypoints (I think that's the term he used) and if the max is exceeded the Garmin won't tell you, it simply won't show anything. I have a 27 hour drive from my house to UT so obviously I need this to work when I get there but I don't know of a way to do a dry run on the Garmin to test it. And I've clicked on everything I can find in Basecamp to see if there is a way to count the number of tracks, routes, and waypoints. How would I know if I've exceeded the maximum? And if I have exceeded the maximum how can I reduce the entries and still have a path that I can follow while I'm riding?

    I've attached the UT and CO files for your inspection. Let me know if these are workable with a Garmin Montana 600 or if I need to do something else.

    Thanks in advance!

    Btw, I'll take this opportunity to express my gratitude to Countdown, Jglow, and numerous other folks who took the time to post their ride files online for the benefit of us all. Thanks!

    Attached Files:

    #1
  2. txmxrider

    txmxrider Been here awhile

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    Well that's interesting. The map that showed up in the above post doesn't show the color codes I gave it in Basecamp. Also the UT map didn't upload so I'll add it here.

    Attached Files:

    #2
  3. ramz

    ramz Professional Trail Rider Supporter

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    File limitations of Montana (series)

    When sending or creating files for an outdoor device, keep in mind the following device limitations:

    Montana (series)

    2,000 GPX files
    4,000 waypoints
    12,000 geocaches
    200 routes, 250 points per route
    200 saved tracks
    2,000 archive tracks*
    10,000 points per track
    500 custom map tiles
    250 BirdsEye Imagery files
    Mapping segments* vary by model:
    Montana 600, 610, 650, 680: approximately 4,000
    Montana 600t Camo, 650t, 680t: approximately 3,500 (due to internal mapping)


    Each GPX file can contain a mixture of waypoints, geocaches, routes and tracks. If the GPX file containing a waypoint or geocache is deleted, the waypoint will no longer be available on device.

    When utilizing routes, only 50 points can be used for on road navigation.

    *Archive tracks do not count against GPX file limit; 1 archive track per gpx file.


    :ricky
    #3
  4. lkraus

    lkraus Long timer

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    Open each track in BaseCamp, either via double-click or right click. The Summary will show you how many points are on that track.
    It looks like you are well under the limits.
    upload_2020-6-24_22-44-49.png

    There is also a status line at the bottom left corner (at least with the Windows version) that gives the number of track points in the selected track. The filter window just above it gives the count of items in the current list file. Here CO 2020 Ride6 has 92 waypoints, 8 routes and 74 tracks for a total of 174 items.
    upload_2020-6-24_22-54-57.png

    I can't comment on usability of the routes and tracks themselves. I'm not familiar with the Montana or off-road routes.
    #4
  5. ramz

    ramz Professional Trail Rider Supporter

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    Track points is not the same as waypoints.

    :ricky
    #5
  6. txmxrider

    txmxrider Been here awhile

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    Thanks folks for the assist. A lot of good feedback there!

    Hey Ramz, its great to see that you're still at it. Remember the two guys from TX that you took riding at Taylor Park about 20 years ago? LOL! Hope you're doing well!
    #6
  7. ramz

    ramz Professional Trail Rider Supporter

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    Yes, I DO remember that ride and you'ns. I mentioned some of the ride particulars to my wife day before yesterday. It was August 2003.

    TwoFromTexas.jpg


    You did OK for a coupla flatlanders :lol3

    :ricky
    #7
  8. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    Take particular note of the maximum of 50 waypoints per route. That is the one that will kill you if you try to use a route with more than 50.

    I think there is also a maximum number of tracks that can be "Shown on Screen". The number 27?? comes to mind. I think the unit will tell you about this. I have never seen it though.
    In case you didn't know, you have to select each track and select Show on Screen to have it appear on the screen.

    You should load your files onto the Montana and then go directly to the Montana to make sure they are there. I would scroll thru a few tracks and select Show on Map and make sure they show up.
    Especially if you have any large ones.

    For a trip like this you are probably going to want to record your actual tracks. Be sure you have good track recording settings.
    Much of this is a personal decision. I use Distance track recording and a track point length of .05 miles (~250 ft). I wouldn't go any longer than this. Smaller is probably ok.

    I prefer Archiving Daily.

    I would also recommend loading MVUM and BLM travel management maps as Custom maps. If you don't know how to do this, it might be a little late to learn.

    I also recommend Navigating tracks. There are a couple of ways to do this. I select the track in The Track Manager, select Show Map, and select GO.
    This will draw a bright, wide magenta, line on the track and make it much easier to see. You can also elect to show Distance to Destination (aka End of Track) in the dashboard.
    #8
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  9. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    I started looking at the Utah part of your trip. That looks like a fantastic ride.

    I had a couple of comments. The probability of being able to cross the Dirty Devil river is about 50/50 depending on how hard you want to work at it.
    The way you are riding it means it is not a disaster if you don't make it. And it is still a great ride out and back thru Poison Spring wash.

    Here is some guidance on when you might be able to cross it:

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/when-you-can-cross-the-dirty-devil-river.1280208/

    The Blue Notch/Red Canyon ride is also really nice. The road that goes thru might not exactly match your track around Good Hope Bay. I can't tell because of the coarseness of the track.
    But if you search around you will find it.

    You have some pretty challenging segments scattered throughout. What bikes are you riding? I imagine from your ride with Ramz you are very competent dirt riders and so should be okay.
    #9
  10. txmxrider

    txmxrider Been here awhile

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    Ha! I can't believe that you still have that photo!!! What a great ride that was too, we had a blast. In fact after that ride we made a pilgrimage to Taylor Park every summer for a number of years. I wondered what ever became of you after everyone drifted away from RMD.
    #10
  11. txmxrider

    txmxrider Been here awhile

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    Thanks for taking a look. I was aware that the Dirty Devil river is sometimes iffy so we'll just play it by ear and see what we got when we get there. The UT loop is almost verbatim from Jglow's UUAR (Utah Ultimate Adventure Ride) ride from 2013. The only thing I changed is that I added in the White Rim Trail and The Tubes between Moab and Green River and added Black Dragon Canyon just after Green River. There will be three of us on this trip and we're on two WR 250Rs and a Beta 350. Since we'll be camping about 2/3 of the time we'll be carrying some gear but we'll only take the bare minimum so as to keep the weight down. Our hope is to have a good mix of challenging sections along with some easy two-track so there's time take a breath every now and then and it's not a death march. I'm a bit more worried about the CO loop actually. I've ridden some of that on MX bikes and it was tough enough (see the Ramz post above). The Beta should be fine but I suspect it'll take some teamwork to hump the WRs through parts of it! Thanks again for your tips on the Garmin. This is the first time I've attempted to create my own ride on the GPS. In all my previous GPS-enabled rides I was either using someone else's tracks or was following someone who knew what they were doing. :)
    #11
  12. ramz

    ramz Professional Trail Rider Supporter

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  13. txmxrider

    txmxrider Been here awhile

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    Oh man, what a blast from the past! I'd completely forgotten about 2/3 of that, including somehow, the lesbians and the German girls :) I can't believe you still have those ride reports. That was the thing back then though. Keith and I were either racing or riding somewhere every couple of weekends. I'd spend three days prepping the bike, three days riding, three days writing a ride a report, then repeat! I still remember that Lilly Pond ride though. It's remains to this day in my top 3 Best Rides Ever. Thanks for posting that!
    #13
  14. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    Took a look at the CO portion. Looks like another fantastic ride. Are you using GPS Kevin's TAT tracks. I don't believe that Sam's have all that single track in them.

    Also Kevin used to have some locked gate "jokes" in his tracks in the area you might be going.

    If you take the county roads from Sargents to Lake city, watch for a sign saying Old Stage Coach trail. It is a really fun alternate to the big road.
    I think it is just past the Forest Service work camp.

    (I thought I posted this yesterday. But either I didn't or it just disappeared. )
    #14
  15. txmxrider

    txmxrider Been here awhile

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    Hello wbbnm. Yes, a big chunk of the CO ride (between Telluride-Lake City-Sargents) is from GPSKevin's TAT tracks. We're trying to go back and hit some of the red sections that we missed on our 2018 TAT ride. On that trip we got behind schedule slogging our way up the Agate Creek Trail and some other red sections east of Salida that ate up about a day and a half. We were on a tight schedule on that trip so we had to really haul butt for a few days to catch back up and we bypassed what appeared to be some good trails so one goal for this trip is to go back and hit some of what we missed in 2018.

    Thanks for the tip about the Old Stage Coach Trail. We'll be sure to watch for it!
    #15
  16. ramz

    ramz Professional Trail Rider Supporter

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  17. txmxrider

    txmxrider Been here awhile

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    Ok, one last question then I'll stop. I promise. Is "filtering" a track necessary for the GPS to work or is it just a cosmetic thing? I'm wondering if this is something I need to do for tracks with over 500 points. On ramz's link above there is a note: "The filtered tracks are filtered to 499 points, so they should work with any modern GPSr." Then I checked the Garmin website and found this:

    Filtering Track Points
    You can filter the points in a track to remove unwanted points and simplify the track.
    NOTE: When you filter track points, the removed points are permanently deleted from the track.
    1. Double-click a track.
    2. Select an option:
      • Select a point.

      • Hold Shift on your keyboard, and select a range of points.
    3. Select Filter.
    4. Select an option:
      • To filter the entire track, select Entire Track.

      • To filter the selected range of points, select Selected Track Points.

      • To set a minimum time between the points, select Time, and enter a time.

      • To set a minimum distance between the points, select Distance, and enter a distance.

      • To allow the BaseCamp™ application to adjust the number of points automatically, select Automatic, and use the slider bar.

      • To set a maximum number of evenly spaced points, select Maximum Points, and enter a number.
    5. If necessary, select Save Original Track to save the unfiltered track.
    #17
  18. ramz

    ramz Professional Trail Rider Supporter

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    Filtering to 500 points per track was based on early Garmin GPS receivers. When I captured tracks and wrote this article, I was using very ancient devices.

    Pay no attention to the filtered tracks and comments; I will remove them and update the page tomorrow morning.
    EDIT: page is updated.


    I've REALLY been hanging around a long time..... :gerg

    PS 5:45 am - After looking into this mess of files, it's not clear to me whether the GPS receivers or the software that I used (Google Earth and BaseCamp) was the limiting element that caused me to make 3 variants of each file. I hope to find the answer soon...

    :ricky
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  19. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    +1 Agree. I used filtering mainly for the older GPS units with the 500 track point limit.

    But I occasionally use it to filter other people's tracks if they went overboard on the sampling either by having too small an interval or using time sampling with a lot of long stops.

    For no rational reason I like to have my tracks to have not much more than 2000-3000 points for about 100 - 150 miles.
    #19
  20. txmxrider

    txmxrider Been here awhile

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    Thanks guys! I really appreciate the feedback!

    Basically I think the gps work is pretty much done. I have the WR prepped and now I'm playing around with packing and deciding what I can live without. Fingers crossed that covid hasn't completely killed the small towns and those little gas stations in the middle of nowhere UT by the end of July. I'm especially worried about that pay-at-the-pump station at Hite marina. If there's no gas there we're screwed because it'll take all we have to get there. There will be little left to hunt down another gas station.

    Assuming we live through this I'll post a ride report when we get back.
    #20